Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Breeding Ground


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 03-31-2009, 08:58 AM
HoundedByHounds's Avatar
HoundedByHounds HoundedByHounds is offline
Oh, it's *you*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: N Texas, USA
Posts: 8,415
Default

I don't doubt it makes some sort of difference...

My friend in Akitas says the lanky look is about it...no increase in HD...ACL tears...Thyroid...Incontinence...shortened lifespan, bloat etc. that could be attributed solely to the surgery and not the fact that ALL the above, occur in the breed no matter how much you test.

I'd put the s/n thing in with microchipping...it has definite at times life saving benefits...it is something that can help a breeder keep some kind of control over the dogs that leave their property. It is something the new owner will either accept or move on (some people really freak out if you chip a dog and want to in any way stay on the chip, even as secondary contact/chip buyer)...and it something that CAN cause an issue later...since chips have been associated with cancer risk...sometimes...in some dogs...go figure if it would have occured anyways, or has a genetic basis.

BTW OP...chipping your puppies is another way to keep track of them even if the people don't want you to...but as I mentioned...some folks have an issue with that, too.
__________________
Gina H.
"Run with the dogs, tonight...in Suburbia"-Pet Shop Boys


http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryngwraythbeagles/
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:20 AM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,327
Default

I can't see it affecting some of those things listed. But what I can see it effecting is bone density and strength, behaviour (not nessisarily in a bad way.. tho most of the juvie done dogs I know tend to be more timid and submissive than their lines would indicate.)

I would think that the long thin lankyness may have some effect on internal organs (they were intended to have more room)
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:26 AM
HoundedByHounds's Avatar
HoundedByHounds HoundedByHounds is offline
Oh, it's *you*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: N Texas, USA
Posts: 8,415
Default

ermm yeah I suppose so. Bone density and strength would be just as affected by a poor or even less than optimal, diet...and you'd have to rule that out to make a case for it being solely due to an early s/n.

Since you brought up human comparisons, I think most human organs are within a certain size range relative to sex and age, regardless of the size of the person "container"...ditto the dog, adding in breed...I believe one of the big reasons large Giants do not live as long it that their hearts are not equipped to power such a large animal because they are at the outside of the size possibilty for the canine...so again.

Human dwarf's have issues with oversized organs....GIANTS as well opposite...but within the two extremes it seems folks do just fine. A bit of extra lankiness is not to me, extreme...a dwarf version of an Akita, might have troubles...ditto a GIANT...but anything within the normal range? Umm no, can't see it. Akitas have a nice broad range of sizes,...and so do Beagles actually.
__________________
Gina H.
"Run with the dogs, tonight...in Suburbia"-Pet Shop Boys


http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryngwraythbeagles/
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:30 AM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,327
Default

No if you want to compare to humans you would have to look at Eunuchs who were 'altered' before puberty. Many interesting things about eunuchs if you research it.

The dogs in question were fed the same diets as the owners other later altered dogs and only the early s/n ended up lanky. So yes whilst diet can be a huge issue, the sort of people I am referring to all feed premium kibbles or a good raw (as in educated raw) diet.

Can you imagine an early altered dog + a poor diet? What a mess that could be!
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:38 AM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoundedByHounds View Post

BTW OP...chipping your puppies is another way to keep track of them even if the people don't want you to...but as I mentioned...some folks have an issue with that, too.
I have met people with issues. BUT I can't see how it helps you keep track of them. (lol its not like they are little GPS units) The only way is if the dog ends up in a shelter and happens to be scanned.

I have heard the cancer issues. None of those have been published in a respected journal so far, and most of the funding is coming from people who desperately want to show that chipping is bad (they fear chipping in humans) however I am sufficiently up in the air about it the whippets weren't chipped, and neither will the Dekklets be.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:39 AM
HoundedByHounds's Avatar
HoundedByHounds HoundedByHounds is offline
Oh, it's *you*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: N Texas, USA
Posts: 8,415
Default

Eunuchs had bigger organs than others?
__________________
Gina H.
"Run with the dogs, tonight...in Suburbia"-Pet Shop Boys


http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryngwraythbeagles/
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:45 AM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,327
Default

I have read that they had health issues that were suspected could have been due to small chest cavity. Due to the dearth of contemporary Eunuchs we won't know. But there were many growth and development related issues we do know about.

It has been studied in horses, but not 'juvie' just before maturity. And there is a marked morphological difference in horses gelded before maturity.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-31-2009, 01:44 PM
HoundMusic's Avatar
HoundMusic HoundMusic is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 47
Default

Quote:
The OP I believe said they had issues getting pet owners to check back in, so that is why I asked would you be able to get them to check in enough to be able to make a call as to how much it makes a difference.

OP here - most of my pet owners are good about checking in & giving me updates, sending back the proof of s/n. Maybe 95% of them follow up. Of course, it's that other 5% that I worry about. Plus, last year we did have an owner break the contract and re home the dog without letting me know beforehand, refused to give me a valid contact info for the new home, too So maybe I'm a little on the paranoid side now with the ones that fall off the face of the earth ...

As for the early s/n, I have seen firsthand both pros and cons. Obviusly, the greatest advantage is no worrying that the pup will ever be bred. I am considering doing it with a test litter, but am still nervous about it. My first Beagle died of osteosarcoma, her only risk factor was being spayed before the 1st heat. We have never had hip or other orthopedic issues with early s/n but I have one pup that was probably going to be oversized anyway get spayed @ 5 months. She is HUGE. Harrier sized, with very, very thin bone structure. Disproportionate to her size. Her dam was heavily boned, the sire had moderate bone and speaking for her sire, usually threw moderate bone. I know that can very well predispose her to joint problems later in life. Her brother also went oversized but they held off on the neuter until 10 months, and he is tall, but has gorgeous round bone, and much more proportioned. So again, on the fence. I would really like to see more firsthand accounts of both positive & negative ...

ETA: I am liking the microchipping pups suggestion more & more every minute
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-31-2009, 01:58 PM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,327
Default

and how is microchipping going to help you and the problems you are facing?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-31-2009, 02:14 PM
BoxMeIn21's Avatar
BoxMeIn21 BoxMeIn21 is offline
Yeah. So?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Teh boozer
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoundMusic View Post
Personally speaking, my pups are also sold on a spay/neuter contract which is meant to prevent breeding of pet quality pups. It's very effective, especially since I negate my health guarantee if the pup is not altered in the specified time period.
This is interesting - Can I ask what your health guarantee is? I thought the guarantee had something to do with health testing and the fitness of your line, why would not spaying or neutering negate this?


/knows nothing about breeding, just curious...thx!
__________________
I've got a pooper-scooper if you want to clean up your act.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:13 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site