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Old 03-14-2009, 09:27 PM
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Default Molosser Breeds

Okay folks, I've been researching most of the breeds called Molossers. Not a TON, yet, but enough to know that I'd like to know more, but also enough to know that I don't know which breed I should be looking for/at and therefore no idea what I should be looking for in a breeder. I've been looking at the Central Asian Shepherd Dog, but I'm not sure if that's the dog I should be looking at or not. I can't really seem to find much out

I want to find a dog that is protective, but not aggressive. Who understands that my sister and her children are not threats, and that the dogs next door are not for eating. I understand that that takes socialization, obviously. I do NOT want a dog that is going to grow up to be aggressive to Ozzy and Enzo and my family's dogs. I want to be able to take the dog places with me. I want a dog that is going to understand that just because someone they don't know walks into the backyard does not mean they are a threat, however, if they ARE a threat, I'd like the dog to react appropriately.


So.. I don't know, this is all probably jumbled up and the breed with the temperaments and characteristics I want doesn't really exist, lol, but I've been trying to find a protective, not aggressive breed. And while I adore GSD's, they are a bit of a hit and miss with the protection instinct, even in the working lines.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
I want a dog that is going to understand that just because someone they don't know walks into the backyard does not mean they are a threat, however, if they ARE a threat, I'd like the dog to react appropriately.
That's an unrealistic expectation. Even a person can't assume someone who walks into the yard without being invited is not a threat until they have a chance to check them out.

Everything else you describe I get from Kharma. I like the fact that no one comes into our space without being challenged and stopped, though.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
That's an unrealistic expectation. Even a person can't assume someone who walks into the yard without being invited is not a threat until they have a chance to check them out.

Everything else you describe I get from Kharma. I like the fact that no one comes into our space without being challenged and stopped, though.
I meant, and I should have explained that better, that if they are being aggressive and threatening, that the dog will react appropriately.

Is that realistic? What about expecting the dog to react with the right level of aggression to a threat? For instance, someone drunk and loud and acting threatening, but does take more than a growl to get off the property? Or is it more realistic to expect one level of aggressive/protection instinct in the dog, with no or little difference in the threat level. Provided there IS a true threat there?

I'm really trying to learn what is a realistic and fair expectation first.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:01 AM
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My GSD is like that. Kenya will give a couple of warning barks if she hears someone coming in, if i tell her its ok or they act non threatening, she will continue to bark, run back into the house and alert somebody about this "problem" and run back and forth

We had a man banging on the gate screaming obsenities (he was angry at someone.. but had the WRONG house)and kenya went for him.. it was a dif bark and a dif approach. she knew he was a threat and she was going for him, snarling, and going for the gate. the guy backed off immediately. i know if he wouldve opened the gate it wouldve been over

I honestly think GSDs are perfect for what they do. I never taught kenya any of this.. i she knows. strange thing is,normally she is very shy and sweet and reserved. but mess with her family or our property and shes totally different.
ive never met a GSD that wasnt like this actually, other than extreme abuse cases
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:05 AM
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The breeds of Molosserworld

and a molloser breed site that might help

South African Boerboel (South African Mastiff)

and thats one of my faves, the boerboel what a studmuffin and the breed seems like what you are looking for.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:16 AM
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How you define aggression/aggressive behavior in the instances you describe?
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:05 AM
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I guess aggression would be posturing, to growling to actual physical force. I think I'm defining it wrong, but I mean that I'd rather a dog that is comfortable being both defensive of their family, and not always on the offensive and looking for a fight, but one that will finish it if necessary.

I don't think I worded any of it rightly in the beginning. I'm trying to say that I don't want unwarranted aggression, and most aggression in dogs that I see is unwarranted for the situation. I want a dog that is able to be aggressive, without taking it too far, and in the wrong situation. That if I've raised the dog and socialized it properly, I say "It's okay" and while the dog may not relax or turn into a love bug, will at least understand that this person is not a threat at the moment.

Now, I know you and Renee both have Fila's, and while I love Bella and Kharma, I don't know if a Fila is right for me.

Now, I know that there is a difference between the Caucasian Ovtcharka and the Central Asian Shepherd, and I know that one of them is a lot more dog aggressive and same sex aggressive than the other.. I'm currently thinking that it's the Caucasian that is more prone to over the top aggressive behavior and dog aggression than the other.. is that right?
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:47 PM
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Re: the CO vs CAO; yes; sort of.
That can come down to independent lines; but for the general context; your CO is drop of the hat eat the intruder; while the CAO gives much more warning. Bark, bark, bark, growl, growl, posture, tooth butt; maybe bite if pushed.

I'd be careful with the Boerboel; I own one and love her to death; but they are an interesting and developing breed. The body type and temperament type varies from line to line; breeder to breeder; some of the very hot ones are not good with other dogs; especially dominant ones.

My Boerboel, Dora, is awesome with little dogs; even if they choose to hang off her lips; she couldn't care less; dogs with a dominant stance; she aggresses to. She gets along well with the pup we are fostering; she gets along well with my Central Asian; Kim and has done quite well during her heat period. Dora is very mellow with people around the property; only when someone touches our property does she aggress and she's not over the top; she barks and alerts when the people are on my property; but has no issues when they are around the property (we visually can see our back neighbours and we live next to a road allowance). She likes to meet new people; but she is very suspicious to the out of the ordinary; which is nice. She is wonderfully handler compliant; in fact even when she is being a retard towards another dog; it takes very little reaction from me to get her to stop; unfortunately this d.a. attitude came to light while she was in season; so I didn't have a lot of time to work on it; but it is something that I think I can get her to tolerate; when she does aggress; it is always on a loose leash; she is not lunging across the room to get the dog. Her temperament is much more South African than many dogs bred in the U.S.; so you could find a dog with a lovely friendly temperament; the breeder of the puppy I'm fostering; does produce those friendly; sweet Boerboels with guardian attitudes. Some of the U.S. dogs have to be taught to bite; many simply posture; bark. The puppy I'm fostering comes from Centurion Boerboels in Georgia; and she is a sweet dog; thank goodness she's moving on.

My Central Asian; Kim; she's a different bird. She notices every - single - thing - that - moves - everywhere - she - can - see; and barks at them all! Kim has a very high threshhold for suspicion; she hasn't found an enemy yet; dog or man. This is not typical for the breed and not typical for the line; her mom and dad are good guard dogs; Kim loves everyone. None of her siblings are like this; so she's just a fluke. From what you are describing; I think the Central Asian would suit you well; even if someone came in the yard unannounced; you should have enough time to get them out before they were harmed; and better yet; since the Central Asian guards the property line so well; and barks so much; no one would likely try to get in the yard. They are hairy; they blow coat; they are not into pleasing their owners; but they can be obedience trained if socialized young. They are generally good with the smaller beings; other pets and children and as a pack dog should be good with your other dogs; and many of FoxFire Farms dogs do play in dog parks and do go to doggy daycare.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fransheska101 View Post
I honestly think GSDs are perfect for what they do. I never taught kenya any of this.. i she knows. strange thing is,normally she is very shy and sweet and reserved. but mess with her family or our property and shes totally different.
ive never met a GSD that wasnt like this actually, other than extreme abuse cases
Anko was extremely friendly to EVERYONE, and she was one of those abuse cases. Also, every SAR trained shepherd I have met has thought every human on earth is the greatest thing ever created. Most other GSDs I've seen would put on a show or take a cheap shot, but if the aggressor were to fight back at all they'd be hiding somewhere.

There are plenty of shepherds who can do what the OP is describing, but not all of them by any means.

And I agree with Renee about expecting a dog to know a threatening intruder from a non threatening intruder. It's just not reasonable. Build a good, HIGH fence, put up signs, and let your dog announce itself. Introduce your dog to family and welcome friends that you want it to be familiar with. If you have neighbor kids that you worry about coming in the yard, have a good fence, give them a talking to, and I'd have them over to give the dog treats daily for a while.
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:10 PM
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Here's my random thread related question. Is is absolutely necessary for the owner of a large molosser such as a Tosa or Fila to be physically stronger than their dog full grown? Wouldn't proper training and socialization assure the owner, no matter what size, that they have control of their dog in any situation?
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