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  #11  
Old 01-22-2009, 12:50 AM
dogaddict dogaddict is offline
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I'm personally for a more balanced diet, which my dog does so well on. I know that there are many high-protein low-carb formulas and many have found their dogs do great on it. However, while we all know that dogs need protein, there's also evidence that overly high levels of protein are harmful and I'm uncomfortable with a protein level hitting over 40%. This is just one: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=207

I really think this high-protein diet is in experimental stages now and it's too new to determine whether it is truly beneficial over a diet that contains a protein level thats lower, but nonetheless a level that meets (and exceeds) AAFCO-recommended protein requirement. I'd rather err on the side of caution. I also home cook and have worked out meal formulas that work for my dog so I know he definitely is getting the protein he needs.

I also like that the Addiction formula has a single protein source salmon. I know my dog is allergic to chicken, but not chicken fat because it's the protein that he reacts to.
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2009, 02:35 AM
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anyone with a link to that? i want to check the whole list...
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  #13  
Old 01-22-2009, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
I really think this high-protein diet is in experimental stages now
Ok this made me LOL...

Umm non high protien diets are what is new and 'experimental. It wasn't till the 40's and 50's that high carb kibble was invented. Before that dogs ate a lot of meat scraps. Canines have lived on a raw meaty diet for much much longer than they have had low protein diets.

I am all for a balanced diet. But that doesn't include grains.

Yes i have read the 'studies' on high protein being bad. BUT it does not take into account the quality of the protein or the other crap the dog is being fed. AND you need to look at who is funding the studies

Quote:
AAFCO-recommended protein requirement
Now this is interesting did you know who is on the AAFCO BOD? Who is on their commities? Dog food and feed companies. So its not really surprising that they want to keep the 'cheapness' of dog kibble (high grain). Not all kibble companies are bad.. but the BIG ones are the ones who have the most influence with AAFCO (like SD) So pulling out AAFCO is like like saying the people who make purina dog foods really do know what my dogs should be eating.

The other really interesting thing with AFFCO is that it doesn't state (or even mention) digestiblity. So while you can have 20% protein.. it doesn't state if they dog can digest it.

For example
Quote:
Dr. Meg Smart, of the Western College of Veterinary Medicine brews a strange concoction, made of old leather boots, wood shavings and motor oil, which could pass one of the minimum standards for pet food, even though it's inedible.
So ya I really trust AAFCO.

If you look at what dogs eat 'naturally' mostly animal parts and a bit of berries and such.. Its about a 25% protein diet. Great you say.. that is what my kibble is. BUT kibble is dry. You need to compare like things.

Once you dry a natural canine diet you get a protein content of over 50%. So that 24% kibble that you are feeding is more like 12% if you are comparing it.

Heck even a horse (total non carnivore) needs at least 9% protein at rest and more when in work. So why would you assume a carnivore needs such a low protein diet? (barring abnormal health issues)
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  #14  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:27 AM
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I pretty much lost faith in WDJ's food recommendations a long time ago. I'd far rather read and learn how to make my OWN decisions for the well-being of my own dogs based on independent research. www.dogfoodproject.com

Even before that I got better info from www.greatdanelady.com.
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2009, 10:37 AM
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That 'top' dry food list is STILL missing many foods that are decent and has a bunch I've never heard of.
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  #16  
Old 01-27-2009, 07:16 PM
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Who is WDJ and what makes them a reputable source?
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2009, 07:21 PM
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Whole Dog Journal
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2009, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MafiaPrincess View Post
Whole Dog Journal
Is this a peer-reviewed journal and who does the reviews?
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  #19  
Old 01-29-2009, 08:36 PM
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I agree that AAFCO standards are not perfect. However some sort of a benchmark is necessary as a base from which to work on and better than none. AAFCO is also peer-reviewed isn't it, and has been around for a very long time. I'm sure there are worse benchmarks out there. At the end of the day, after all these dog food websites and WDJ-type articles, what I have always done is decide for myself whether the ingredients in foods are good, and more importantly, always monitor whether my dog does well on a food.

Also, a guaranteed analysis should be looked at on a dry matter basis, no? Most kibble in the market list the protein levels on an as fed basis rather than dry matter basis. So the way I interpret it is that when you remove the moisture content from the food, the protein percentage will go up? Moisture is present in kibble as well as fresh foods. I just feel that it is important to highlight that wild dogs have a very different energy and protein requirement from that of a domestic terrier or spaniel. Thus we cannot assume that their protein requirements are the same as wild dogs.

Dekka I'm open-minded about the protein issue and want to know more. I'm curious to find out what studies or evidence you have that support such a high (40%) protein level? As in why not, say, 32% or 28%? Why is 24% considered low? Do let me know if you have good scientific articles to recommend, I would be keen to read up on this further. As mentioned in my previous post, I have seen too many articles highlighting the problems associated with high protein diets. Thanks!
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  #20  
Old 01-29-2009, 08:50 PM
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I don't have any articles. As all those funding canine nutrition studies are funding by dog food companies (sometimes you have to dig I remember one that was funded by Kraft.. and they make one of the common kibbles.. though I can't remember which one at the moment)

Dogs have only eaten low protein since kibble came on the market.

Most people I know who do serious dog sports feed better kibble (IMO) than those listed with WDJ. I imagine the average pet owner wouldn't likely know the difference. But I sure can tell by my dogs performance (statistically) what they do better on.
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