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Old 01-09-2009, 04:18 PM
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Default Bait bags

I didn't want to say anything on the other thread because I didn't want a whole off topic discussion so i started one up here. You were all talking about bait bags and vests etc. that you use for treats and toys. I was wondering if any of you had ever run into problems with a dog who will not listen unless you have the bag. It's basically the same as holding the treat in your hand. I have been using a plastic plate to put Phoebe's treats on which I leave on the counter (it's lunch meat so I don't want to put it directly on the counter) and she gets excited when I bring out the plate which is not really what i want, it's basically me saying "hey dog, i have treats!!!!". I would really like to give a command without her knowing I have treats on me (until I give her one of course! which will be within the first few commands). I mean there is still the whole variable reinforcment schedule, she does not get a treat every time. but I'm afraid she'll learn that when I don't have a bait bag/the plate she will know she is NOT getting any reward no matter how many times she does it.

Have any of you had there problems? I'd use my pocket if I used dry treats, but I'm not shoving bits of ham and roast beef in my jean pockets. I have not had problems yet because she is not my dog so i never really have her in a situation where I ask her for commands unless it's a training session, but I would like to move up to that and start working with her in busier places.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:25 PM
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I have had that problem before too, Maxy. Now I use a small bait bag and clip it to the back of my pants. THat way dogs don't know immediately whether or not I have a treat. I think it's also important to every once in a while, out of the blue, click (or "yes") your dog for doing something good and then run to the fridge and pull out a chunk of the first dog-edible thing you can find. That way the dog never knows when you might click, and the excitement of running to the fridge will be extra-reinforcing.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:35 PM
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Not much trouble because I don't always follow the same pattern. They don't get a treat every time anyhow once the behavior is well on it's way. They just think there's a good chance. LOL. I use to do a lot of my training when on a hike or walk...just refreshing recalls and stays here and there. I often didn't even take treats with me...just praise and then let them run off again to explore for their reward. I don't do a whole lot of formal-type training at all presently with the dogs I have. There are some things I need to refresh though. And a trick I want Chuli to learn. Then I often just use a counter top or table if I'm inside.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:38 PM
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I don't use one (I have one but almost never use it) for that reason. I think it depends on your dog. The JRTs could pick up on that, I doubt the whippets would.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:47 PM
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i use one sometimes, sometimes not. depends on what i'm wearing. if i'm wearing jeans, there's not room for a baggie full of treats in my pocket. if i'm wearing a hoodie, i've got a nice pocket. if i'm at home, i can put the treats up somewhere, but if i'm in class or training outside somewhere, i need them to be on me somehow.
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:04 PM
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Personally I don't use bait bags for just that reason, it is also one of the reasons why the hunting vest works for *some* training.
We are having a devil of a time right now with one of my student's dog. She started at another place, wore a bait bag and lured....................oh gezzz now all that dog does is try to get to where she 'thinks' the bait bag maybe. Causing lots of problems and I don't allow any bait bags in class, but I would bet my last dollar that the owner is still using one at home, because the problem in class should have gone away by now.
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:18 PM
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Ares. He was the first dog I did much training with. Always wore a bait bag -- the carpenter's apron. He would come out for training, look at my waist and if there was no bait bag, he wouldn't do anything good. I immediately started wearing an empty bait bag while putting treats everywhere else and it didn't take long to break the chow hound of that problem.

If you vary it -- a bait bag, a carpenter apron, a fanny pack, a hunting vest, jeans pockets, jackets pockets, leave the treats on the shelf, etc. then the dog won't know whether or not there are treats based on your outfit.

Laundry day gets interesting here as I find all sorts of bait in a variety of pockets
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:28 PM
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If the dog gets overly interested in my pockets, he just doesn't score until he simmers down and gets to work. "No lookie, no cookie."

No trick.... no treat! LOL!
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:59 PM
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I started training my boys for treats.... but then they didn't want to do anything for me without the treat bag. SOOOoooOO, I stopped using the treats. They now work off of praise and praise alone. I still give treats but I don't ask them to do anything for them. They needed to learn to listen regardless of whether or not I have food for them. Plus I got tired of being covering in dog slobber as they thoroughly searched my hands for any possible food scrap that may be lingering.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:02 PM
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I stopped using a bait bag because I'm clumsy with them. I knock them off, or end up yanking out all at once, etc. I sometimes use a tug toy with a pouch; that's easy to shove all the way into a pocket and open up just when I want treats. Or I keep dry treats in a pocket, or just shove the ham or turkey in a pocket loose, and make sure to do laundry that night!
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