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  #11  
Old 01-07-2009, 10:08 PM
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But try not to think of your dog as a ticking timebomb just waiting to turn into a DA dog.... She just doesn't like that dog, period.
Absolutely. Dogs are like us. We don't like every single person out there.

However, I would recommend avoiding punishing your dog when she acts like that around the other dog. "Corrections" can back fire on you, causing the problem to escalate by associating the other dog (s) with a bad feeling (from the punishment). The best you can hope for with that is a temporary and iffy supression of the behavior. Then "out of the blue" the dog some time in the future goes balistic toward the other dog. A better way is something like what Maxi described. But still....you might end up with a mere and mild tolerance to your uncle's dog. Lots of dogs just flat out aren't crazy about every dog they meet.
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  #12  
Old 01-07-2009, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
However, I would recommend avoiding punishing your dog when she acts like that around the other dog. "Corrections" can back fire on you, causing the problem to escalate by associating the other dog (s) with a bad feeling (from the punishment). The best you can hope for with that is a temporary and iffy supression of the behavior. Then "out of the blue" the dog some time in the future goes balistic toward the other dog. A better way is something like what Maxi described. But still....you might end up with a mere and mild tolerance to your uncle's dog. Lots of dogs just flat out aren't crazy about every dog they meet.
When I correct her, it's not a harsh enough correction for her to associate bad things with him I don't think. I usually give her a little poke or a tap to distract her for a second, and then "leave it", or "that's enough". She calms down a little with that, but not enough that I'm comfortable with her behaviour around him. So that's usually when I crate her so as to avoid conflict. I'm going to try Maxi's suggestions, and hope for the best. And if I get no promising results, then at least I tried. If she's still showing aggressive tendencies toward him after working with her for a while, then they won't be together ever again.

I'm sure you're right in that she won't become DA. I just can't believe the amount of aggression she has toward him though. Having had a DA dog in the past, I naturally worry about another dog of mine becoming so. I know I shouldn't, but I do.
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2009, 01:42 AM
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Having had a DA dog in the past, I naturally worry about another dog of mine becoming so. I know I shouldn't, but I do.
I hear ya. How old is she again? She could become DA. It's important that she has lots of good experiences with dogs she does like and try to avoid dogs which upset her. For some reason, either she doesn't like this dog...plain and simple or something about him frightens her. Maybe that coming onto her too strong that one time freaked her out. It's hard to say what is in her head. But I'd counter act it as best you can with lots and lots of socialization with other, better mannered dogs.
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:03 AM
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She'll be two April 1st. And in the last 6 or so months she's developed a few different quirks and behaviours. Some good, and some I'm not overly fond of... but they seem to come and go. Even so, I deal with them as they come since I don't want her to think any of them are ok. This is the only one that really worries me though - the rest are pretty normal adolescent dog things.

She was a pretty timid dog when she was young, and I socialized her like you wouldn't believe. Now she has a huge amount of confidence in the majority of situations.. and I think that's part of why she's become more aggressive with Kuma than she used to be.

She greets other dogs in a friendly manner still. She used to greet them with her tail in her legs and was a bit unsure. Now she walks up to them with calm confidence, and good body language. So as long as she stays that way I'll be happy. I don't want her to gain so much confidence that she develops a more dominant temperament and causes issues. That's what Tango ended up doing, but I like to think her DA could have been prevented had I known something about proper training back then. Hard to say though - she was DA by the time she was 10mths old, so maybe I couldn't have prevented it. Sure made life tough though -- for both her and I. I enjoy having "take anywhere dogs" now since they're such a huge part of my life.
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Last edited by Toller_08; 01-08-2009 at 03:18 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:25 AM
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Normally, it's not the confident dogs that need to display that "over-kill" "dominant" attitude. Some breeds are incredibly hard to socialize amply. Dobermans are another. I had trouble with Lyric that way. And he would "go off" on other dogs but basically only when on a leash. (I caused that I'm sure when the first time he got a little insecure and got growly, I probably tightened up on the leash and reacted.) And it just went from there. It took a lot of counter conditioning to get him over that or mostly over it. I thought I socialized Lyric enough, but probably not. He went to classes all the time and was fine in class contexts. But there just weren't enough dogs around where I live to practice every day.

Anyhow, it is a real pain in the arse to deal with. You want to continue socializing to dogs she will be apt to get along with and avoid unpleasant combinations...dogs she doesn't like and might have a big reaction to. The more confidence she develops where other dogs are concerned, the less she'll feel a need to be reactive. Once they get in the habit of "going off" on other dogs, it's very difficult to turn around. I think hormones are released in that state and sometimes those can be reinforcing. Plus, if she would rather have more flight distance...more space between her and the other dog (for whatever reason) and she becomes reactive....and it works, (the other dog backs off) she learns that acting snarly, barky, lunging etc works. And that reinforces the behavior even more.

A couple of good books: Click To Calm, Emma Parsons and Fight, Jean Donaldson. I know there are others, but those two come to mind. I recommend those because they not only show you what may be going on, but how to work the problem step by step.
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  #16  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:03 AM
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Plus, if she would rather have more flight distance...more space between her and the other dog (for whatever reason) and she becomes reactive....and it works, (the other dog backs off) she learns that acting snarly, barky, lunging etc works. And that reinforces the behavior even more.
This is Dekka's issue. She is fearful and wants the dogs to keep thier distance. People have a hard time seeing a snarling JRT who looks like she wants to eat their dog as afraid, but there it is. Kaiden who is uber confident doesn't get into fights is happy go lucky and he is a 5 year old intact male.
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  #17  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:50 AM
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Yes indeed. People have a hard time thinking a 90 Lb, muscular Doberman Pinscher with a big mouth full of gnashing white teeth is reacting out of insecurity. He looked so vicious and forward at times. There are two styles of creating more flight distance and dogs vary in what style they use: One is to get away from the other dog. (or person, whatever) And the other is to make the other dog go away by acting fierce. Not wanting to be up close and personal with another dog is usually due to some kind of fear or insecurity. There are some truly dominant-aggressive dogs that just want to fight but that is probably not nearly as common.
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  #18  
Old 01-08-2009, 12:21 PM
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People have a hard time seeing a snarling JRT who looks like she wants to eat their dog as afraid, but there it is.
yeah, try it with a pit bull :-/

mushroom is scared. i know he is scared. the general public sees vicious pit bull. and all of this could have been avoided in the first place if people'd follow the freaking leash law.
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  #19  
Old 01-08-2009, 12:47 PM
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yeah, try it with a pit bull :-/

mushroom is scared. i know he is scared. the general public sees vicious pit bull. and all of this could have been avoided in the first place if people'd follow the freaking leash law.
I can't imagine... that must seriously suck! I know the censure I get from the general public and my dog is tiny, cute and isn't a 'dangerous' breed.
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  #20  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
Normally, it's not the confident dogs that need to display that "over-kill" "dominant" attitude. Some breeds are incredibly hard to socialize amply.

Plus, if she would rather have more flight distance...more space between her and the other dog (for whatever reason) and she becomes reactive....and it works, (the other dog backs off) she learns that acting snarly, barky, lunging etc works. And that reinforces the behavior even more.
That's what I thought too (about the confidence point), but she doesn't behave insecure or worried at all anymore, so I don't know what to really call her. She simply behaves in a confident, calm manner when meeting new dogs, and then is on her way. She doesn't seem insecure around this particular dog either -- she just has some sort of hatred toward him, for lack of a better explanation. She doesn't appear to want distance, like a fearful dog normally would. But then again, while I know a lot more than the average dog owner, I'm still young and relatively new to training dogs, so I could be missing some sort of subtle clues.

I'll see if I can find those books you mentioned, too.
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