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Old 12-05-2008, 07:38 PM
DogstarAcademy DogstarAcademy is offline
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True, but at least Red's dogs exist.
Old 12-05-2008, 07:39 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
For some of us, DRIVE is of equal weight with health and stability of temperament. A Fila without drive isn't a Fila. A JRT without drive isn't a JRT. A Terrier of any sort, period, without drive isn't a Terrier.

One of the things I liked in an Irish Wolfhound I saw a in the Westminster show a couple of years back was the predator in his eyes. THAT is part of being a Wolfhound. A Beagle that doesn't put nose to ground isn't a Beagle. "Pretty" and "healthy" . . . well, if that's all someone is looking for - and nothing wrong with it - then go rescue a dog.

Right there's a big flaw in the AKC and so many breed clubs. They've abandoned the heart of the dogs.
So true.. that Beagle that one Westminster... I don't think his family tree has ANY hunting in the lines (well maybe if you go WAYYYY back) And the breeder gets touted as having produced the 'best beagle in the country'. How can it be the best beagle if it can't follow its nose? And they get mad if you say its a canine beauty pageant... Not sure why that is a bad thing.
Old 12-05-2008, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
all you have to do is go to the OFA site, look up the kennel name and see the same results.. its that simple..
and ?? whats your point??

I might get in trouble for this, but right now, I dont care...

Im sick and tired (and Im not the only one) of your downright nasty attempts to talk **** about Red...

sick of it.. and there is no point to this thread except you wanting attention, and thats all you do.. make things up, and then cry about it...

Old 12-05-2008, 07:39 PM
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If a puppy mill (in your twisted, idiotic mind) is someone who breeds dogs that are sound, have no health defects and multiple titles? Then yes... :P

Though I know you have no personal experience.... breeding show quality, and sound dogs, you can't just look at A and B. There are many different factors.

But of course... you wouldnt know that, now would you?
Old 12-05-2008, 07:40 PM
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So far it appears that the breeders here at Chazhound - and the puppies their dogs have produced - have done a damnfine job of proving themselves to be sound and having done a stellar job of choosing sire and dam.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

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Old 12-05-2008, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by noludoru View Post
We went over this in chat, and it concluded with you implying that a certain well-repected member is not only a bad breeder but is breeding "defective" dogs, and leaving chat because no one wanted to hear this BS. The breeder you are taking an issue with, and her breeding you are referring to, has been discussed MANY, MANY times on this forum and there are AT LEAST ten threads talking about her decision to breed her dogs.

If you have a problem with her, I suggest you take it up with HER rather than making passive-aggressive threads in the hopes of getting what you want when those of us in chat saw through your petty tactics.

ETA: I was just informed that this passive-aggressive BS is not only aimed at one member here, as per the collie comments. I, again, will suggest that you take up your issues with these individuals rather than behaving in such a childish manner.
Originally Posted by jess2416 View Post
and ?? whats your point??

I might get in trouble for this, but right now, I dont care...

Im sick and tired (and Im not the only one) of your downright nasty attempts to talk **** about Red...

sick of it.. and there is no point to this thread except you wanting attention, and thats all you do.. make things up, and then cry about it...


Go gals! Totally agree.

l ~Jennifer~ l
l Handler for Team Blazin' l Photographer at Joy Photography l Nikon D40X with 35mm 1.8 Nikkor Lens l
Old 12-05-2008, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
I did not say who it was.. For you to continue you will tip it off..
The question stands = would you breed these two dogs ? And if you were to endorse it I find it hard to believe anyone can tell someone that has two dogs to breed and say ' do health testing" when we ourselves some of us are not.. Each breed has a problem.. but the problem here noted is prevelant in the breed.. To me that is no different than breeding a collie with bad eyes, or a cavalier with a bad heart or degenerative heart problems.. This doesn't make sense to me..
I'll tip someone off as to who you're talking about? Seriously? SERIOUSLY? You said it yourself in chat. Not only that, but you have called her IRRESPONSIBLE. You have said that her dogs are DEFECTIVE, and that she is [no better than] a PUPPYMILL. You have also directly called her an IDIOT.


Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
all you have to do is go to the OFA site, look up the kennel name and see the same results.. its that simple..
And again, I will ask - why on earth do you think that I need to 'tip anyone off'? It's already more than apparent who you are talking about and we have proof.
"and I dont play the victim, I own my stuff... but whatever blows your skirt up. "
Old 12-05-2008, 07:58 PM
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Now lets see, how long have we been genetically testing dogs??? 20 yrs?? sounds about right. Therefore until they can i.d all those genes, we wont know and have to make an educated decision as to who and what to breed and then cross our fingers. But having said that the testing we do these days is a far cry better than none from years ago.
First, there are NO clean lines you idiot. Anyone that says that is either hiding something () or so very ignorant they need to do some reading on breeding and genetics.
Having said that I am by no means an expert on genes and how they flow down the lines but I at least know there are no clean lines in ANY BREED.
Having said that, I do know breeders that have done a test breeding of suppected carriers and then cull if need be. May not be something that I would do, but they certainly do have the long term in mind and in the end do produce 'CLEANER' lines.

BM, you initals say it all.................BM = BOWEL MOVEMENT OF THE MOUTH AND BRAIN.
Btw, congrats you are the first person that I have called names too but I too am so sick of all this and you.
Old 12-05-2008, 08:05 PM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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I would say that a breeder needs to make an informed decision based on their breed, gene pool depth, how common the ailment is as well as how serious, and the total dog. I really feel confident that the breeders who are sort of kind of in question have thought things through and made a choice that they feel is right.

This has been discussed a lot. Some people agree with specific decisions, some don't. You can hardly call someone who puts that much effort into their dogs as uncaring or lump them with puppymills.

Hank CA - (approx. 1 1/2 year old Spotty Dog)
Mia CGC - (6 1/2 year old Papillon)
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
To those of us that follow that premis, to get the best, to reduce physical problems in the breed, we are obligated to show the best to the best, and breed the best to the best- otherwise we are nothing more than what we abhore in breeding whatever to whatever.. To reduce problems in the breed, we as breeders should only breed the best with no health problems otherwise we are no different than someone throwing two dogs together to make pups..
Soooooooo tell me. .. If a sire and dam both hadthis defect, knowing it ran in the breed, would you breed it???? " DEGENERATIVE JOINT DISEASE I UNILATERAL RIGHT". Knowing the breed could have problems with this- my question is simple- would you breed it? To me its no different than what we condone with breeding a collie with eye problems or certain others with heart disease....
Would you breed it? Dont need to explain it- the question is- would you breed two dogs with a breed defect know in the breed and take the chance..
My answer is no..
Hi, there, Borzoimom.

Since this post is directed at me, with regard to my recent breeding, which the puppies are almost 16 mos, I will address it.

I did this breeding for numerous reasons.

The partners complemented each other phenotypically very well.

The sire was linebred on traits I wanted.

The sire displayed in spades traits I am looking for.

I did a lot of research before I did this breeding. The sire of this litter is siring a good percentage of elbow normal dogs. He has a normal sibling, a normal dam, and 2 normal grandparents, each of whom have a normal sibling.

The pedigree of my bitch is showing a steady improvement in elbow status, which has continued nicely into this current litter. 4 puppies as of present have normal preliminary hip AND elbow status on record at the OFA.

The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak, and we will really see how this litter stacks up in the health testing department next year, as they will all be hip, elbow, eye, and heart screened at age 2, and all results will be released and displayed in the OFA data base.

If you have any other questions I would prefer you be direct, and I'll be happy to answer.

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