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  #101  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:42 PM
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CharlieDog CharlieDog is offline
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Originally Posted by golden&hovawart View Post
It's still not normal and a good breeder shouldn't have bred that dog!.
See Red's post earlier in this thread please. I would LOVE to have a pup out of Penny. She is an OUTSTANDING dog. DJD1 is not something I would consider eliminating a dog (a Rottweiler anyway, GSD's and a few other breeds yes) from a breeding program for.

Red already explained this, but eliminating all Rotties with DJD1 would eliminate more than HALF of the Rottie breed from breeding. Red is breeding AWAY from this, and her mating with this dog proved how successful she has been at calculating the odds. Almost all of the puppies from this litter are show worthy and Id bet money more than half will be of EXCELLENT breeding quality.
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  #102  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by golden&hovawart View Post
It's still not normal and a good breeder shouldn't have bred that dog!.
but in the rottweiler breed, if you remove every single dog with abnormal elbows, you've cut the gene pool down to a very small number. that's not good either. responsible breeding of djd1 dogs to dogs with normal elbows can prevent that extreme narrowing of an already small gene pool.

if we were talking about a breed in which abnormal elbows were a small minority, then i'd agree with you 100%, but unfortunately, in this breed, that's not the case. only 58.7% of rottweilers who had their elbows OFA evaluated were normal.
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  #103  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:50 PM
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golden&hovawart golden&hovawart is offline
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Yes,the dam is outstanding but the ELBOW isn't!.
As said before,I, will not go through putting another pup down cos of severe hip and elbow dysplegia on 4 legs!.This is my choice!.
It has nothing to do with RR!.Rotts are well known for dysplegia so is the GSD and the Golden!.Actually,most large breeds are!.
The gene pool of the Rott is pretty large compared to the Hovawart and still,the hovawart club won't accept dogs that are anything less than OFA GOOD on hip or OFA,NORMAL on elbows!.
  #104  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by elegy View Post
but in the rottweiler breed, if you remove every single dog with abnormal elbows, you've cut the gene pool down to a very small number. ....
Thats the point- breed only the best to the best .. For example- lets say I could breed femka.. So what if she has low thyroid, she would be a great mother and out of excellent lines.. Sooooooo I should take the chance and breed her? So what if one of a litter of say 8 pups have thyroid as long as I got the others out of her... Same exact principle.. Dismissing genetic diseases is what is wrong with how people perceive this problem. As I stated earlier- like Hottie- to breed him and dismiss his problem of " situational accident' is not ethical to me..
*** And on a side note, I find it funny that what concerns people is a breed that I no longer have, breed, show or compete with. If I were still doing shepherds, still breeding and showing then the questions would be answered. To me all you are doing is questioning the memories of my dogs now at the Bridge..
  #105  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden&hovawart View Post
It's still not normal and a good breeder shouldn't have bred that dog!.
Why not?

All dogs have good and bad points? If you only breed the 'perfect' specimens you will have such a small number (if any) dogs to breed from.

The diminishing gene pool is a SERIOUS issue in the purebred dog. Its ideas like these that diminish the pool even further. If it is recessive and you never breed affected to affected IT CAN'T pop up later.
  #106  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:54 PM
borzoimom borzoimom is offline
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Originally Posted by golden&hovawart View Post
Yes,the dam is outstanding but the ELBOW isn't!.
As said before,I, will not go through putting another pup down cos of severe hip and elbow dysplegia on 4 legs!.This is my choice!.
It has nothing to do with RR!.Rotts are well know for dysplegia so is the GSD and the Golden!.Actually,most large breeds are!.
The gene pool of the Rott is pretty large compared to the Hovawart and still,the hovawart club won't accept dogs that are anything less than GOOD or elbow,NORMAL!.
Thats because you understand G&H as you have had to put a down a young dog due to a genetic disorder.. And also you have the experience of other club registries that would not accept a dog with a genetic disorder to be considered to breed.. Most people do not understand this.
  #107  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Why not?

All dogs have good and bad points? If you only breed the 'perfect' specimens you will have such a small number (if any) dogs to breed from.

The diminishing gene pool is a SERIOUS issue in the purebred dog. Its ideas like these that diminish the pool even further. If it is recessive and you never breed affected to affected IT CAN'T pop up later.
True that.

Also, just because Hovawarts do something doesn't make it for every other breed.
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  #108  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
Thats the point- breed only the best to the best
Who defines best?

Do you go on health alone and forget type/temp/conformation?

If you only breed the perfect all round specimen of that breed then you doom that breed to much larger issues later on. I would hazard that after only a few generations they would be so inbred as to have fertility and other issues.

It might be a nice idea, but in the real world it doesn't work that way. I would buy one of Penny's pups. I am more interested in a total package though.
  #109  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:55 PM
borzoimom borzoimom is offline
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Why not?

All dogs have good and bad points? If you only breed the 'perfect' specimens you will have such a small number (if any) dogs to breed from.

....
EXACTLY! And how many dogs are in breed rescues looking for homes? Especially a popular breed? Why add to the population?
  #110  
Old 12-10-2008, 12:59 PM
borzoimom borzoimom is offline
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Who defines best?

Do you go on health alone and forget type/temp/conformation?

...
You start with health. Then conformation, type, temperment and willingness to work within breed traits..
Using an example- Logan- ( I rarely talk about him) but he was drop dead beautiful. Great health! Already lure coursed- ( so 3 out of 4 here already..) yet- his temperment was wacko! ( And that is putting it mildly). Yes- possibly it could have been the situation he was raised in ( abused by former owners husband) but even if he had accepted my husband or other men, I would not have ever bred him as there is still always a doubt on temperment.. If he had at least accepted my husband he would have lived out his life as just a pet- .. But to breed???? No way in Gods' green earth.. No matter his health, no matter his movement, his " type", etc.. Ohhhhhh yea I could have targeted " woman judges.." lol.. But what good is that? The dog was not sound..
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