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  #11  
Old 11-19-2008, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by puppydog View Post
She is a gorgeous girl.
Please educate a person who has only recently seen western riding. I don't get it? The horse looks lazy and tired. What is the point of this? Bearing in mind I am only used to English style of riding.
Here is an older vid about WP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZfC-uGMOo

She is far from lazy and tired....yes, she is out of shape...having two foals and sitting in a pasture for a few years will do that to you . What is the point? WP is supposed to be just that, a pleasure to ride. Soft, relaxed gaits. Many people have ruined WP in the last few years though, you will find a lot of 4-beating lopes(the horse appears to be trotting in the back), and horses with their heads way below the pole. That is not correct, and much is being done to fix that. Many work only on 'slow' but they forget the mechanics of WP. The horse does in fact..need to go. My trainer and I were just talking about this the other day. All the young horses they have don't do the 'jog' you see this mare doing...a nice jog and lope come with proper impulsion from behind. They get the horse going, and once they are using themselves properly(impulsion from behind, back up, collected) they start teaching them to 'slow'. There is actually a lot to WP if one is able to go to a correct barn and watch.

Dekka, What kind of video would you need? I can possibly get a lunging one of her today.
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2008, 09:17 AM
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She is gorgeous!
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2008, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rough_Collies2008 View Post
Here is an older vid about WP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZfC-uGMOo


Dekka, What kind of video would you need? I can possibly get a lunging one of her today.

She looks lovely. When you get riding her....

See what that is one of the things I want to address... what english (dressage in particular) call collected is very very differnt from what western people call collected. Same with impulsion.. even the AQHA HUS horses don't have the same 'impulsion' as reg HUS horses.

What started it was a clip of Blue Sky Boy who won congress http://www.onlybluesky.com/obs_congress_1.mpg Not to many english riders this does look lazy and behind the leg. BUT as this horse won congress one has to assume this is how they want horses to look So his conformation (which isn't good by 'non AQHA' hunter) has something to do with how he looks. His offspring all have the same hind end as him and all move the same.

sorry to hijack.. lol I love to talk horses!
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2008, 10:04 AM
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Pretty face! LOL I am starting a thread on another forum about conformation and biomechanics.
Can you PM me the forum? I would be interested in reading the thread and following along.
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2008, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
She looks lovely. When you get riding her....

See what that is one of the things I want to address... what english (dressage in particular) call collected is very very differnt from what western people call collected. Same with impulsion.. even the AQHA HUS horses don't have the same 'impulsion' as reg HUS horses.

What started it was a clip of Blue Sky Boy who won congress http://www.onlybluesky.com/obs_congress_1.mpg Not to many english riders this does look lazy and behind the leg. BUT as this horse won congress one has to assume this is how they want horses to look So his conformation (which isn't good by 'non AQHA' hunter) has something to do with how he looks. His offspring all have the same hind end as him and all move the same.

sorry to hijack.. lol I love to talk horses!
LOL...if it is horsetalk....it isn't a hijack.

I don't like that horse at all, and Congress is not what I would hold as 'standard' for HUS or WP. Many people show at Congress as long as you can afford the stall. But what you are seeing with the stallion above, is exactly the issue I am talking about. Judges are placing incorrect horses. It is a problem, and it is being worked on.

I do know what you are talking about with impulsion and collection...however, the 'idea' is always the same. If you ever notice a WP rider 'check' the horse they are asking them to rebalance, lengthen their stride, but to not speed up. The idea is similar to a half-halt. You don't want the horse to speed up, you want them to rebalance(sit back on their hind end), keep the same impulsion, but lengthen their stride. Obviously, WP is different then Dressage. The finished product is different, but again the basic 'idea' is still there. The fundamentals of correct riding(no matter the sport) are the same. The older finished WP horses are in curb bits, longer reins, different look. Obviously, we are not going to ask the WP horse to do piaffe's, canter pirouettes etc So the amount of collection you all may be looking for is going to be different as the horse moves up through the levels.
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Old 11-19-2008, 12:15 PM
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asking a wp horse to lengthen their stride?? LOL could be.. but I always see them taking itty bitty strides with no suspension at all. Can you provide some links as to some great WP/HUS stuff?

See now this is what I think of when I think of impulsion, and collection (the definition of collection-dressage wise-of loading more weight on the hind end, elevating the forhand, and creating higher shorter steps in the same rythmn as the working trot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hpLprT2Vsg *swoons.... esp after 3:30

conformation shot-


A very diffent build and a very different way of going.

I haven't started the thread.. waiting till I find some more stuff for it. The forum is a very active mainly hunter rider (nonAQHA) and there tends to be a little 'looking down' on western stuff. I think its a lack of understanding and appreciating the differences. Someone had posted a pic of a Blue Sky filly and made some comment that no one said she was cute. Pretty much everyone said she had a nice front end.. but ewww the back end. Then I got looking at the sire and some other big winning AQHA HUS types and their back ends were very similar. So perhaps that back end IS what the people want. No one wants a WP horse that engages like that dressage horse..
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2008, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
asking a wp horse to lengthen their stride?? LOL could be.. but I always see them taking itty bitty strides with no suspension at all. Can you provide some links as to some great WP/HUS stuff?

See now this is what I think of when I think of impulsion, and collection (the definition of collection-dressage wise-of loading more weight on the hind end, elevating the forhand, and creating higher shorter steps in the same rythmn as the working trot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hpLprT2Vsg *swoons.... esp after 3:30

conformation shot-


A very diffent build and a very different way of going.

I haven't started the thread.. waiting till I find some more stuff for it. The forum is a very active mainly hunter rider (nonAQHA) and there tends to be a little 'looking down' on western stuff. I think its a lack of understanding and appreciating the differences. Someone had posted a pic of a Blue Sky filly and made some comment that no one said she was cute. Pretty much everyone said she had a nice front end.. but ewww the back end. Then I got looking at the sire and some other big winning AQHA HUS types and their back ends were very similar. So perhaps that back end IS what the people want. No one wants a WP horse that engages like that dressage horse..

Dekka...comparing that Dressage horse to a WP horse is comparing oranges to apples...it is a different discipline! The horses are bred, and trained to move differently.

The 'fundamental' idea is the same. You want the horse enganged from the hind, their back up, soft in the bridle...correct? So do we. You are talking about FEI level horses, once you move up to that level(really passed 2nd Level), it is completely different. A WP horse should be able to compete in a training level(even first level) Dressage show and score well...if the training is done correctly. That is the point I am making.

You obviously have not seen well bred WP horses...I don't blame you there are many bad ones(the barn I ride at is one of the best in the country...their horses go to World, and are priced in the triple digits, they are well bred and correct...hard to fine!). However, I have seen the same in Dressage. People shoving their horses head in a frame(no impulsion from behind to move into the bit properly), back down, short strides. When a horse is trained incorrectly...no matter the discipline it is an ugly sight.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2008, 12:48 PM
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lol I think you miss what I am saying I am not arguing that point. I am saying that the top of different venues are built differently, and obviously go differently. (even a top hunter and a top dressage horse are very different) So I want to explore the biomechanical differences.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2008, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
lol I think you miss what I am saying I am not arguing that point. I am saying that the top of different venues are built differently, and obviously go differently. (even a top hunter and a top dressage horse are very different) So I want to explore the biomechanical differences.
I have to apologize for being defensive, however, lack of knowledge and understanding of the 'western discipline' is common...and trust me...out and about, I hear snide remarks a lot. I do wish people respected each other a bit more. We all love horses, and I think that should be good enough
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  #20  
Old 11-20-2008, 04:10 AM
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Thanks so much for explaining it to me. It makes perfect sense now.
The reason the disapline looks tired to me is because of my untrained eye. I am used to seeing very collected, on the bit horses. I have been riding dressage and showjumping since I was 9.
Now that I understand what it is all about, I find it pretty facinating. She is an awesome horse.

(and tell her I don't see any baby weight)
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