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Old 11-17-2008, 06:41 PM
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Thumbs up Fila correct temp? how to test Part 1

As you all know I believe guardian dogs all should be socialized to accept public attention- not always friendly but attention none the less.

THe less than ethical breeders in Filas that do NOT work test show or prove their dogs in any way shape or form.
Yet they are reading this board now and take credit for peoples work like the Fila people here.

In my breed we use CGC CGN TT and or Protection Defense tests to prove what the dogs can do or can not do.

It is easy to get any guard dog to BITE be it fearfull or defense.

It is much harder to get them to pass a CGC or TT.

The CGC has a hand off to a stranger and i Can see that as a issue cause u you have 2secs to intro the person. Many of my dogs Central Asian Shepherd have passed this, But many I prefer who are more active in defense to do a TT- http://www.atts.org.

The USA TT is quite different than the Cafib Fila TT.

So how does one market and or prove a Filas temperament?
Any dog can guard a yard but how does one prove a line for a breed not readily amendable to handling?
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:46 PM
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Part 2 If you a breeding a purebred dog in this case a Fila. Should you show them to the the standard ? If so how does one do that if one wants the dog shown to a expert.

Filas are not UKC or AKC based on the "hands off judging".

FCI judges know the breed well but are very few in between in the USA.

Comformational faults can and will lead to disease in any breed.
So some say why bother showing? it is not about the wins it is about learning how to read comformation faults that if doubled up on can and will lead to health issues.
( not enough teeth , wrong bite, lack of pigment, lack of angulation, easty westy, hocky etc as u all know).

Now Ive seen many a Fila show from friendly ( Drews Josie) to insane at the Arba CB .
But I dont know how a breeder can prove thier dog at min meets the standard.

Is their a way for a Fila to be certified rated by FCi without have to be shown?>
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:47 PM
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Part 3 What genetic disease is in the Fila ? besides HD that needs to be screened for?
Very few OFA dogs listed.
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:48 PM
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Part 4 Working can Fila just be worked in tracking , S & r and that be their future?
Or ranch guardians? or will they hunt like cougar or bear?
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:00 PM
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The way Kharma's proved herself is by working real cattle, protecting me in the real world - literally - and knowing just how far she had to go to carry it out and go no farther. I've seen her hunt on her own. I've seen her kill her prey. I've watched her do things with the cattle like forcing a cow to go to her calf by feinting toward the calf, watching to see which cow comes forward, then circling back and driving the cow to the calf. She's protected my property, me personally, and has shown a penchant for tracking. She also has a *thing* for cars that have had drugs in them, lmao!

Trials are well and good, but they are games for the dogs and they don't necessarily translate to real world skills or willingness.
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2008, 05:01 PM
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Dont get me wrong I am NOTTTTTT for 'trailing dogs" for any sport in a defense breed.

But I am for testing nerves under pressure off property.

I dont believe I have better dogs in cAS cause I test . I believe I am a better breeder cause the tests teach me no matter the breeding each pup can inherit different reactions.

I Fully understand wanting a breed like the Fila to survive BSL.
But the only way to do that is to test and work the dogs in public - showing control - stability and protection...

i know the old time Fila people will hate me for this. But I do believe a Fila can be trained to handle a 1 min Hands on basic exam for faults which can interfere with the dogs health longivety or working ability.

Not all my dogs can pass a CGC, some are too defensive, all should pass a TT.
ATTS and any fila NOT bred to hate strangers should fly thru it with ease.
The scoring is based on recovery not defense.

My dogs are sold as Protection dogs but if they themselves are not tested for it.
How does one expect the buyer to HOPE the dog will protect.

If everyone was a dedicated to the breed such as yourself. We would not have backyard breeders. But if one wants to sell guardian dogs of any breed they must do something to prove the dogs can do what they were bred to do, or change their selection based on their breeding. EX training a Fila to track for good vs slaves would be a great idea.

The reason as u know behind the post is not about chazzers.
But the many yard breeders of Fila who buy reg dogs, do NOT work them, Do not show them, do not test them for health or temperament. Yet breed them based on thier notority for "aggression" then flip the coin claiming their Filas can take a abuse by kids and are great family dogs , yet NOT one dog can pass a TT proving show.

CGC have a hand off to a stranger most guardian breeds never shown before can have issue with this. IF they show a few times they are used to hands off of leashes to friends. Dog to dog, basic obedience.

TT is a walk in the park that tests stability and reactions to percieved threats NOT bite, not hands off to stranger, no dog to dog. It tests the dogs alertness to a threat thou not much OUTSIDE of its territory. I have dogs that will pass this test but would FAIL a close up TT for real protection and they were fixed and removed from breeding.
Without testing I would not know what they can and can not do.

BH is a basic obedience test with tracking I think a Fila could ACE if socialized.

And god for bit I post this ive heard of Therapy Filas aka TDI test.

Nationwide insurance will insure banned breeds which in some countries include the fila if they pass a TT.

So in conclusion I cant see how the Fila is going to change if others do not get out there and work show and test NOT trial NOT compaign their dogs.

PS The Filas I traveled to Mexico with DID not try to eat me.
One fell a sleep on my lap
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Trials are well and good, but they are games for the dogs and they don't necessarily translate to real world skills or willingness.

This statement sums up exactly how I feel on the subject. I always believed that there is no truer test of a dogs temperament or abilities than how they respond to an actual real life situation where you never know what the response (be it from human or animal) will be towards the dog.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:12 PM
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Well as I said I dont agree about making a sport dog out of a guardian dog.

But if everyone claims their dogs can protect and do its job based on their words vs achieving anything in the public eye.

Thanks to many backyard breeders and fake websites.
No one is going to believe it.

In Germany and Russia Cold war Working dogs worked, they did not live in kennels for breeding. Yet they were taken once a year for a judge to evalute their comformation and to score them and to keep records of progeny.
Plus dogs that were lame were removed from breeding that was thier old world version of HD testion. You ran 20 miles in circles all day the dog or the handler dropped they did not make the cut.

Also they were required to do a basic protection TEST and obedience basic.
Done away from other dogs and its own territory.
This was done to maintain protection ability.

Cause if you put 3 dogs in a work yard and no one breaks in, we assume the dogs did their jobs. Yet on TV we have professional crooks that can get dogs to back up who look tough but wont protect.".

When I travel to bad places I have some dogs that I take with me over others cause during testing NOT trailing I learned they have a quicker trigger than others. Something I would NOt know If I did not test them.

Cause how many are going to approuch a 140lb waving a stic at me in real life? But that one in a 100 chance it is nice to know they will do as they are supposed to do.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:17 PM
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I have seen other Fila boards where they would probably have my head for saying this but when we get our Fila I do plan to socialize heavily.

I have no interest in a huge dog jumping and snarling at everyone we pass by ready to attack, instead I want a confident well socialized dog that can accompany my family and I in our daily lives. No I don't expect our Fila to love everyone but I don't expect it to want to kill everyone either. lol

I know that a true Fila will protect and defend if necessary, so I don't see the point in having one just to prove how big and bad the dog is by encouraging aggressive behavior.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:33 PM
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Well we agree and differ.

If a dog has passed a CGC and it social and is shown hands on and it out public and shows good behavior as evident by the CGC. And when mature is asked to defend and to out. That does not equate to "encouraging aggressive behavior".

Allowing a dog to decide when to defend and not to listen to the owner present that is more encouraging "of aggressive behavior"
Since the dog is not trained to CUE to the owers ok defend dont defend.
It shows the owner they will have MORE control if and when the dog has to defend.

I think I am out of my realm seems that the Fila people be it hands off or hands on have a different approuch to idealisms on TESTING dogs .

All I know is if I did NOT CGC TDI TT PROTECTIon test my breed ( not all do all of those)
the Public would eqate us along side the Fila or the Caucasian Ovcharka people who promote them as aggressive..( not all just most online)

When they pull that crap with me I take out a dog in public & prove it & they SHUT up...

When I was sued by a con artist who did a slip and fall around a dog I bred when I was not there. His dog promoted as aggressive and the CAS had TT's given by others show casing he falls as controlable in public. And the breed itself is NOT aggressive. The case was dismissed....

Simply not testing and everyone breeding what is in their yard and claiming it is a real fila and will do real Fila things will not help the breed change.

If everyone told the truth and was a trainer with proven abilities in testing I dont think we would have to prove anything.... IN perfect world.

For the record I am in for the change to out the "hatrid" and in strong distrust.,

But based on public image of late I dont see that happening...
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