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  #1  
Old 09-02-2004, 01:19 AM
chloe chloe is offline
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I have a Westie who's 10 weeks old. I got her two weeks ago. I also have two maltese dogs. One is 15 and the other 5. Both females and get along great with each other. They're pretty passive, get along great with children and adults, never have a problem taking anything out of their mouths. Definitely not aggressive. They both look out for each other. The Westie is also a female. The older dog definitely lets the Westie know where her place is. The problem I have is when I want to take something out of the Westie's mouth that shouldn't be there, she won't let go of it and then when she does, she growls and tries to snap. I'm not acustom to this because I have maltese dogs that don't do this or didn't do this when they were pups. I understand that westies have totally different personalities. When I finally get it out her mouth, she growls and tries to nip at me, I then, firmly tell her "NO" and proceed to put her in her crate. Am I doing something wrong? Because she doesn't seem to learn. I also have a problem potty training her. I was so happy, because she recently started going on the weewee pad, but tonight she urinated on the carpet 8 times. Thank God the urine is clear. I don't want to give up on her. I think she will change. I've put my hands in her food bowl and have also taken the bowl away, just to see her reaction and I was pleased that she didn't growl or become aggressive, but I am concerned that when I try to take something out of her mouth that shouldn't be there, she growls and tries o snip at me. Please help and tell me what I should do to rectify this problem. My concern is her reaction towards younger children who play with her and then adults.
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  #2  
Old 09-02-2004, 07:49 AM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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The only thing I see that you are doing "wrong" is using the crate for punishment. I don't crate, but I've read so much of the good advice posted by people who do, like Brattina, and this is one of the things that is counterproductive.

Keep taking things out of her mouth. Do it over and over and over. She has to learn that you have that right. But . . . after you take it, make her sit or lay down for 10 or 20 seconds, then either give back what you took, or give her something appropriate to chew on - and praise her to the skies each time you give her the item.

The NILIF program that Serena's talked about (Nothing In Life Is Free) would be useful with a dog like a Westie. It sounds like your little pup is trying to assert herself with whoever she can at this point, especially since your senior dog is putting her in her place - which is entirely acceptable. Whatever you do, don't undermine The Queen! She can be your best ally when it comes to training the new pup. The carpet wetting is probably part of it, but at 10 weeks you've got to expect some accidents. I think that as you make progress with her other training this will improve. In the meantime, just be consistent.
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Old 09-02-2004, 11:12 AM
chloe chloe is offline
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Thank so much for your help. I don't normally put her in the crate for punishment. This was the first time I did it. The first night in the crate, she cried, but fell fast asleep. Ever since then, she goes in there to sleep and sometimes play with her toys. She has toys everywhere. You are so right about "The Queen" a/k/a Chloe, being my best ally and I've allowed her to do whatever she needs to do to put Polly in her place, without fierce aggressive fighting. She's great and Polly has come to realize so far that Chloe's the leader. They all seem to be getting along gradually. I'm going to take your advice on taking things out of her mouth and doing it over and over again, until she learns. By the way, she just made on the weewee pad and I praised her for it and gave her a treat.

Thanks again for your help
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Old 09-02-2004, 08:51 PM
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Keep up the good work; she'll reward you over and over again, but you know that. Keep us posted on how things are going, and be sure and post lots of photos in the gallery! We love to see all of our Chazhound pups.
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  #5  
Old 09-05-2004, 11:18 PM
chloe chloe is offline
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Serena,
Thank you for your advice. I followed the advice of taking things out of her mouth waiting 20 seconds then giving it back to her, which worked fine and which were totally appropriate for her to play with. I got her to sit and then praised her for it. The problem is this, and it all happened today. Chloe, my older dog vomited and Polly, the westie, ran straight for her vomit. I picked her up, washed off the vomit and dried her with a paper towel. She went for the towel and wouldn't let go. When I finally got the towel, she growled, bit me and drew blood. She also urinated off the weewee pad, onto the ceramic tile. As I was cleaning it up, she bit me, left bite marks and a black and blue (I think she was playing). At one point, she was in my mother's room, chewing on a slipper. My mother took it away from her, growled, bit her and drew blood. I'm so concerned about this, because I don't remember my other two dogs as puppies being this aggressive. I understand that Westies have totally different personalities, but my concern is as she gets older, what's going to happen. I thought puppies are suppose to bring joy and laughter to a home, but she's beginning to scare me. When she tries to bite me, I imitate a growl and tell her "NO", and it works for a few minutes, but then she's back to old routine.

I'd like to briefly tell you how I got her. I've wanted a westie for a long time and one day, not too long ago, I was walking into a pet shop to buy dog food. There was this lovely couple, I thought, buying pet food and the woman was holding this cute wonderful little puppy. I asked her if it was a Westie and she said yes, she was the last of a litter of five and her name was "Lucky". She told me to hold her, as I did, and immediately fell in love with her. She was licking me all over the place. At first I said I couldn't take her, because I had two other dogs, but then as I was leaving, I asked for their phone number in case I had a change of heart. I knew I wanted her and called the next morning. It turned out that he gave me his work number and I was to meet them and her back at the pet shop the next day. Sounds a bit sketchy? I wanted to see the mother, but they wouldn't let me. they made some excuse. They wanted to sell her for $350. I normally would never pay for a dog, because I think they're just priceless. You could never pay enough for them with all the unconditional love and joy that they bring into your lives. I took my mother with me the next day to the pet shop and she fell in love with her as well. I wanted to see the pup walk and play with her a bit. she seemed fine. I asked her why she called the pup Lucky and she said no reason. Seemed like a great name. Asked her if she was the runt of the litter, she didn't understand what I meant. She definitely wasn't a breeder, as she said she was, because she would have understood what runt meant and she would have let me see the mother. She stated that pup was 10 weeks old and didn't have her shots because she was recently weaned off her mother. well, I thought that's pretty old to be weaned off the mother and her first shot should have taken place between 4-6 weeks old. They wouldn't accept a check. They wanted cash. I wanted the papers, at least, on the mother and father. They had a copy of the mother's papers. I said to myself, they must have stolen her or possibly selling it from a puppy mill. what would happen to this pup if I didn't take her. I thought the unimaginable, so I took her. I immediately took her to the vet. People at the office just fell in love with her and found her in a very good disposition for a Westie. She got her first shot without a fight, was very friendly to all and the vet said she was only 8 weeks old, which the couple had lied about.

I feel maybe she was weaned off her mother alot earlier and didn't get a chance to socialize with the other pups. I feel sorry for her and really want this to work out. I don't want to give up on her. I understand with Westies, they have a very strong bite and if this isn't corrected now, I don't know if I'll have a hand left or if I can have her play with children or adults for fear she may bite them. My younger dog who's 5 fights with her because the pup is always taking things away from her. My older dog is constantly putting her in her place. It seems like neither dogs like her. Please help, I don't want to lose her.
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Old 09-05-2004, 11:48 PM
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Okay, Chloe, you got taken advantage of for your big heart. Try to keep in mind that it's much better to be a person who's taken advantage of than a person who takes advantage. Your heart is in the right place.

Now, you've got some work on your hands because you've definitely got a stubborn little brat to work with. First off, decide who is more stubborn, err . . . has more resolve, you or the puppy. It's harder than you'd expect when you're dealing with a Terrier. They're wonderful, fun-loving, adorable, clever, affectionate, loyal and pig-headed, with all due apologies to pigs.

Along with working on the NILIF, get either the books or videos from the Monks of New Skete. I've known people who have had marvelous results with them.

I also talk to mine. Yeah, I get some real looks sometimes, but the looks change when my dogs respond. I've done it since I was 4 years old and my parents got me a Terrier puppy to replace the dog they had to give to a farmer. I'd had Copper from the time I was 2, but they had to find another home for him as he got larger and harder to deal with. They still talk about how I was the only person Copper liked or would listen to, even at that age, so I guess I've been talking to dogs since I could talk. (lol) You'd be amazed at what happens when one of them does something bone-headed and I look at them and ask, "What was THAT about?" Then we have a heart to heart in a calm, quiet voice, and the first and last thing I tell them is that I love them. I wouldn't suggest a real close, face to snout conversation with your little Westie yet, as it might end up in an involuntary nose piercing at this point.

Just be consistent, be the leader, make sure the puppy always sees your older dogs minding you and obeying you. It won't hurt to do some extra practice of things like sit and lay down in front of the puppy. After all, the puppy is learning that the older dogs are above it in it's world order, and it needs to understand that YOU are above the older dogs. That gives you a head start.

I can't stress this enough. Don't - DO NOT - let this puppy get the impression that the biting frightens you. Angry is okay, as long as it's controlled and you don't do anything wild, but NO FEAR! This puppy weighs less than 10 pounds! What is there to be afraid of?

Remember, too, that the worst punishment possible for a dog is being banished, alone. Time outs aren't just for kids; they work wonders for dogs, too.
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Old 09-06-2004, 11:11 AM
chloe chloe is offline
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Hi Renee,

I will look into getting the video or book from the Monks of New Skete. I also went online to get the NILIF and did get her to sit, but not for long. I need her to stay. By the way you said you talk alot to your dogs. I do the same thing and get a better response from them then I do children. . I too, have had dogs all my life and found that they do understand alot of what your'e saying just by the tone of your voice. I'm wondering if all westie pups are like the one I have, in temperment. I'm getting the feeling that they aren't like this, because so many people have told me how wonderful they are. I definitely do not show her fear, but I do growl and firmly tell her no.

I really appreciate all the help you have given me. It's been 15 years since I raised a pup, Chloe (my Queen).
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Old 09-06-2004, 01:14 PM
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LOL! I know what you mean about not raising puppies for a long time! With the exception of O'Reilly, all of our dogs since my first German Shepherd were adopted as adults. O'Reilly was no trouble at all, but he was 3 months old when I brought him home from the pound, so most of the hard stuff was over.

Bimmer was no work at all. He never so much as acted like he was going to go inside. Buffy was the same way. Then came Shiva! Oh, I had to think on my feet!

You should see the looks I get, talking nose to snout with dogs that can put my entire face in those maws!
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