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  #11  
Old 11-02-2008, 07:04 PM
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That's a good point Dekka. I think another reason she wants to leave is that I haven't spent as much time coming back to her and rewarding, she's more used to recall. I'll spend a LOT more time going back and around to heel, then rewarding.

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  #12  
Old 11-03-2008, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noodlerubyallie View Post
That's a good point Dekka. I think another reason she wants to leave is that I haven't spent as much time coming back to her and rewarding, she's more used to recall. I'll spend a LOT more time going back and around to heel, then rewarding.

You guys ROCK. I'll be a good handler someday
I was going to say the same as Dekka... it has helped me a LOT to teach my dogs to differentiate between a "stay" and a "wait". STAY is never recalled, I always go back, usually to the left side, and it is only released with the release command ("release", ironically, haha). The hand signal I use is a flat hand with fingers closed. WAIT is always recalled, and I use an open hand signal.

I practice stay much more than I do wait. And I started so, so slow as to never set my dogs up for failure and never give them the opportunity to break it. Start by saying stay and literally taking a single step to her side, treat her, and go back and release. Then, a couple of steps around her, go back and release. Until you can make a full circle around her while she's staying. Pay really close attention to her body language... if YOU feel she's about to break it, reward and release quickly. In the class setting, spend lots of time at first just telling her to "stay", not stepping away even, and rewarding her for staying there. Try to make her feel like staying on a stay is a must, and it's much much more rewarding than going anywhere.
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  #13  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:34 AM
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Doberluv nice intruction... i will save this thread so i can have some reference on how to teach my dog still properly.
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:35 AM
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I use wait not stay as well. For some reason, she got wait before stay so I went with it. Use hand gestures only and keep the distance at two steps. Heavy reward at two steps. The first time she does 3 steps feed her a mouthful and praise her like YOU won the lottery.

Reward any behavior that looks like she's even remotely close to doing what you ask and your dog will come around. Once she's doing 3 steps, rinse lather and repeat.

Remember the adage around here. "if you want your dog to do something, make YOUR reward for doing something YOU want, greater than the reward she would get from doing what SHE wants." The way to call your dog off from chasing a squirrel has to be more rewarding for the dog than chasing the squirrel.

Make sure you have a release word. Just as your dog "looks' like it's going to break stay give her permission. Nobody wants to stay forever and once she has stay in her mind and knows eventually she will be released for the good stuff, she is more likely to stay.
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  #15  
Old 11-03-2008, 09:03 AM
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Again great advice happening!!
You also may want to not put a label on it yet, especially the same label where she has been unsuccessful in the class setting. When she is 100% successful, then add your verbal.
Another thing to consider is not using the verbal that has been unsuccessful, use a different word. Or train it to mean that sit or down is a stay without the verbal 'stay/wait'.

You can have some fun with it too, some people use 'splat' for a down, certainly not traditional but if they had to retrain it, it certainly makes it clear and concise to the dog.
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  #16  
Old 11-03-2008, 09:14 AM
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Great point, Dekka about not doing recalls. Very true.

Also, to the OP - in your first post you mention leading off with the right foot. Excellent! Another extra cue you can give is to fold your arms. I have always done it with my arms folded in front of me across my chest. Recently I've seen more people instead clasping their hands behind their back, because the dog sees that as you walk away.

Also the folded arms or clasped hands removes the possibility of an inadvertent hand signal being given.
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  #17  
Old 11-03-2008, 11:53 PM
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I totally agree, Corgipower!

Body language is super-duper important. I didn't even notice it at first, but I lean forward when teaching my dogs to stay/wait, and lean back and open up my body more when I recall.
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  #18  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Also the folded arms or clasped hands removes the possibility of an inadvertent hand signal being given.
That's a good way and a little extra body language cue could certainly add to the stability of the stay. What I did however, was once the stay got really quite good, (it has to be already a darn good stay) I'd start doing a variety of random things with my arms and my body that might entice him to break the stay so that future inadvertant movements wouldn't disrupt the staying power. I'd add them in just like other distractions, little by little, raising the degree of difficulty gradually. I'd raise up one arm suddenly. Or scratch my head, clear my throat, cough and cover my mouth, reach in my pocket for my lighter and light a cigarette, unzip my coat and toss it, I'd spin around, bend over, walk around, side to side, turn and walk away and then advance to jumping up and down, squatting down. (that's a hard one because sometimes when playing, we call our dogs that way). But in this instance, squatting was not an invitation. And dogs can learn the difference in contexts for the very reason they have that "phenomenon" about not generalizing behavior well. I'd make sure that the visual recall cue (if he were in a "wait" and this, only after he had a rock solid one and only once out of say 10 waits) was very clear and distinct from these other movements. If the dog would break the stay, I'd give a no reward marker and replace him. If he looked like he was just about to break the stay, I'd go ahead and remind him, "stay." If he broke the stay too readily or too much, I knew I had to back up and not do such flamboyant movements for a while more. Anyhow, all those things help increase the liklihood of further developing a good stay.
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Last edited by Doberluv; 11-04-2008 at 09:44 AM.
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