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  #11  
Old 10-31-2008, 04:46 AM
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Romy Romy is offline
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If there were no breeders, I would not own a dog today.

We fostered several dogs, most with the hope of adopting them, and every single one had some kind of mental problem caused by how they were raised that made them unsafe with children. Well, maybe not older children, but I certainly did not want to risk having a dog like them around Aurelia when she was born.

As for adopting a puppy from the pound and raising it myself, that would have been, not impossible, but there isn't a guarantee I could have kept it once it grew thanks to all the BSL jerks. My landlord's homeowners insurance did not allow pit bulls (or "lookalikes"), and every puppy in the pound in Tucson had short fur, many would grow up to have square heads as well. The other problem with that is:

How big will it grow?
How active will it be?
It is a vocal dog?

When you consider the fact that some of the most used excuses for dumping a dog are:

"He's too big!"
"We can't give him all the time he needs. Too energetic"
"He barks too much and the neighbors complained"

You can see how important it is for a family to know, in general, what kind of dog they are getting in order to make the best match. The best match reduces the chances a dog will get dumped because he is incompatible with somebodies lifestyle. If there was no dog breeders breeding dogs with proven stable temperaments, good health, and the traits we look for in a companion, there would be no way I would consider bringing a large carnivore into my home with my infant daughter. I would have guinea pigs instead.
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggin View Post
shoving a puppy inside a little glass box, with no bed, no toys, minimal human contact, and laying in their own feces is ABUSE. How can ANYBODY send a puppy to a place like that??

Yes, I've seen pet stores that were THAT bad.
Ah, but at least in a glass base the puppy is not goin to hurt the paws so easily, in most of the pet shops here they have a cage one over the othes and they don't put anything that can protect the puppy paws.

I remember a jack russel puppy that was walking difficulty over the thin metal bars in the cage and then he sat in the only bowl inside of the cage.

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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I breed to preserve the genetic traits of my breed. If we all stopped breeding till all the dogs found homes (assuming we could get the irresponsible nasty BYB and millers to stop too.. lol like that would happen!) We would loose too much of the tested genetic information. Why throw the good out with the bad?


Well said, I have heard so many people complaining " dalmations are to hyper and crazy, chihuahuas and GSD are extremly nervious don't own a GDS, etc.." and none of them got them from a responsable breeder.

If good breeders stop then the original temperaments of breeds will disappear.

And besides not all places have shelters, there's isen't any one here, and I'm not goin to buy from a pet store beacuse of that, even if it takes me years of waiting I want to own a dog from a good breeder one day.
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  #13  
Old 10-31-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sapphire-Light View Post
Ah, but at least in a glass base the puppy is not goin to hurt the paws so easily, in most of the pet shops here they have a cage one over the othes and they don't put anything that can protect the puppy paws.

I remember a jack russel puppy that was walking difficulty over the thin metal bars in the cage and then he sat in the only bowl inside of the cage.





Well said, I have heard so many people complaining " dalmations are to hyper and crazy, chihuahuas and GSD are extremly nervious don't own a GDS, etc.." and none of them got them from a responsable breeder.

If good breeders stop then the original temperaments of breeds will disappear.

And besides not all places have shelters, there's isen't any one here, and I'm not goin to buy from a pet store beacuse of that, even if it takes me years of waiting I want to own a dog from a good breeder one day.
The pet store in my town has a metal grate type thing for the bottom. No newspaper or shavings of any kind to protect the puppies. The kittens get a nice bed and toys, none of the puppies do. On the other hand, in a much bigger city near Phoenix Arizona they have much nicer enclosures for the puppies.

Nice or not, these puppies need daily human contact. They need to be handled by different people. Looking out through a wall of glass at people taping on the glass is not proper socialization. They need mental stimulation as well. Some of these puppies live in these conditions for MONTHS. I've seen some smaller breeds stay in these shops until they were 6 months old. Can you imagine the psychological damage that has been done to these dogs?

Show me the nicest pet store and dog enclosure you can find, and I will still think its abuse.
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  #14  
Old 10-31-2008, 12:17 PM
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As far as reputable breeding goes. Lets go ban it and see what happens. What you are doing is weeding out the good guys, leaving the bad (bybs). The breeds we know today will be destroyed. Please shoot me if this day ever comes.

I think its great to rescue the dogs that have been put in shelters due to bybs. But I think it is just as important to support reputable breeders.

I agree with what everyone else has said.
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  #15  
Old 10-31-2008, 01:18 PM
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So then what do they propose, breeding bans? That makes about as much sense as the bans against owning specifice breeds in places like Denver and Ontario, i.e. BSL.

If they think legitimate responsible breeders dump puppies in pet stores or shelters then they don't have a clue what they're talking about ... they're making noise out of ignorance based on unfounded assumptions. Most responsible breeders have longer waiting lists than they have available puppies! If they have buyers back out then they keep the pups or wait to find homes *themselves* ... they do not sell pups to pet stores or dump in shelters! Their puppies or even adult dogs are seldom if ever available for free ... unless the potential owner is personally known to the breeder. I would bet that poster is unable to name even ONE legitimate breeder ... of any breed.

The author of the post you pasted only seems to have some idea (an incorrect one) of show breeders, but no clue about working line breeders .... but most of the general public doesn't. These dogs are selectively bred for farm, ranch or service work, and not all lines are strictly purebreds. There are also legitimate breeders who breed show and/or companion dogs. Buyers seeking either working dogs, show dogs or specific characteristics in companion dogs are simply NOT going to adopt mixed breeds from shelters. They will instead wait for the right dog from the right breeder. Not everyone gets an animal quickly on impulse.

The tone of the post you originally copied seems to be focused mainly on money. They claim "adopt, don't buy" .... yet there's a very distinct undertone that seems concerned mostly with money ... specifically not spending any. That's exactly the problem with BYBs who don't health-test .... it's the opposite direction but they too are concerned mainly with money, in their case making as much as possible without regard for the animals or potential owners. The ads the poster sees in the paper for "free" puppies and kittens are NOT from legitimate breeders ... they are from irresponsible pet owners who had "ooops litters" (most times unknown mixes) because they failed to adequately control their unspayed females. Those people are not at all "the same thing" as a responsible breeder! BTW, does that poster think animals adopted from rescue agencies are free? They are most certainly not!!

Not all, but lately more private rescue agencies are asking pretty hefty "adoption fees" these days and some have ridiculous adoption requirements ... both are turning people off adopting in the process! Shelter dogs are not free either, although fees are usually much less than private rescues. In some areas however, private rescues grab up the most adoptable dogs from shelters, and sell those dogs. The particular private rescues that do this have adoption fees in the hundreds of dollars.

That's exactly what goes on in my area, even though all the shelters but one are no-kill ... and that one-and-only kill shelter only euthanizes animals unadoptable due to either health or dangerous temperament. As a result, in our area most dogs still left in shelters are large dogs with temperament issues that many people cannot handle. Those who want a puppy, small breed, or want a purebred are out of luck at the shelters here ... unless they can get there ahead of the private rescue grabbers-resellers in a game of beat-the-clock.


EDIT: And no .... NOT saying rescue or shelter animals "should" be free or "cheap" ... not at all.
BUT .... when private rescues raise their fees to amounts matching or not much less than BYBs then all they are doing is driving people to BYBs ... thus inadvertantly supporting backyard breeding in the process.

Last edited by TheGoldenRetriever; 10-31-2008 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Add clarification
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  #16  
Old 10-31-2008, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldenRetriever View Post
So then what do they propose, breeding bans? That makes about as much sense as the bans against owning specifice breeds in places like Denver and Ontario, i.e. BSL.

If they think legitimate responsible breeders dump puppies in pet stores or shelters then they don't have a clue what they're talking about ... they're making noise out of ignorance based on unfounded assumptions. Most responsible breeders have longer waiting lists than they have available puppies! If they have buyers back out then they keep the pups or wait to find homes *themselves* ... they do not sell pups to pet stores or dump in shelters! Their puppies or even adult dogs are seldom if ever available for free ... unless the potential owner is personally known to the breeder. I would bet that poster is unable to name even ONE legitimate breeder ... of any breed.

The author of the post you pasted only seems to have some idea (an incorrect one) of show breeders, but no clue about working line breeders .... but most of the general public doesn't. These dogs are selectively bred for farm, ranch or service work, and not all lines are strictly purebreds. There are also legitimate breeders who breed show and/or companion dogs. Buyers seeking either working dogs, show dogs or specific characteristics in companion dogs are simply NOT going to adopt mixed breeds from shelters. They will instead wait for the right dog from the right breeder. Not everyone gets an animal quickly on impulse.
Agree, problaby the person that said that has the wrong idea like the ones that belive that all show breeders have those expensive animals only to produce tons of puppies to sell at big $$$$




Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggin View Post
The pet store in my town has a metal grate type thing for the bottom. No newspaper or shavings of any kind to protect the puppies. The kittens get a nice bed and toys, none of the puppies do. On the other hand, in a much bigger city near Phoenix Arizona they have much nicer enclosures for the puppies.

Nice or not, these puppies need daily human contact. They need to be handled by different people. Looking out through a wall of glass at people taping on the glass is not proper socialization. They need mental stimulation as well. Some of these puppies live in these conditions for MONTHS. I've seen some smaller breeds stay in these shops until they were 6 months old. Can you imagine the psychological damage that has been done to these dogs?

Show me the nicest pet store and dog enclosure you can find, and I will still think its abuse.
True I don't think that any petshop can be 100% kind to they animal. I have seen puppies with flees, witouht water, death birds, a employee killing a fish when he put too many seaweed in the bag where the fish was, also the animals in tiny cages (glass or metal).

I only go to petstores to buy food and calcium for my turtle
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  #17  
Old 10-31-2008, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sapphire-Light View Post
Agree, problaby the person that said that has the wrong idea like the ones that belive that all show breeders have those expensive animals only to produce tons of puppies to sell at big $$$$






True I don't think that any petshop can be 100% kind to they animal. I have seen puppies with flees, witouht water, death birds, a employee killing a fish when he put too many seaweed in the bag where the fish was, also the animals in tiny cages (glass or metal).

I only go to petstores to buy food and calcium for my turtle
Yes, and its more than just physical abuse. Its psychological as well. Very very sad. I once seen a puppy chew its foot until it was bleeding. Lack of mental stimulation or something was going on there.

I dont buy anything from pet stores. I refuse to support their business in any way. I once found some nice collars that were quite tempting though! LOL.
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  #18  
Old 10-31-2008, 05:12 PM
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I never buy anything at any shop that sells puppies ! Also , beware of on line selling !!! Good breeders don't need to advertise selling puppies .
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  #19  
Old 10-31-2008, 05:13 PM
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IN my breed the numbers are so low ( barely 600 to 700 registered per year) that excellent lines are preserved. Its to further the breed - to produce what they are.. We have a national rescue and alll highly involved.. We all love the breed and thats why we do.
I see number of other popular breeds and just about faint.. Why people would do mix or designer in other breeds is beyond me.. I use to be on a board of a HS and the signing off on weekly lists was literally making me sick. (shoves a towel in my mouth..)
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  #20  
Old 10-31-2008, 06:32 PM
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My fav line from people like this is "I only want a pet, so why should I pay that kind of money from .............. when I can get the same breed from such and such down the road." My response is always the same, the cost difference between purchasing from a byb, mill or petstore is the same as one vet bill if your pup becomes sick (which can often be the case with pups from those sources) not to mention total breeder support and support can be a full refund with the puppy back or a total refund towards vet bills if they want to keep the puppy.
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