Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-18-2008, 10:22 AM
Maxy24's Avatar
Maxy24 Maxy24 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,717
Default

Quote:
Socializing with people doesn't mean the dog needs to be petted by everyone. The dog can be near people and is being socialized to them. It's much easier to train correctly from the onset than to untrain/retrain later.
She's not suggesting that you let the dog jump, but that you do let the dog meet people and not to require a sit just yet, simply require no jumping. I think meeting is very important. For instance Phoebe is perfectly fine around people and dogs who walk, run, bike, sit etc. near her but if they try and pet her or a dog tries to interact with her she become defensive. She saw tons of people but did not meet many. So yes she is calm around them but she also become aggressive when they try to touch her. I'm not saying you were suggesting she does not have the dog ever interact with people I'm just saying I think interacting is much more important than just watching. I do think walking around people without meeting them is important too, that way they learn not every person is going to get a greeting but that can make a dog calm walking around them but still exuberant during interaction.

What I would do with a dog that jumps is with children I kneel down and hold the dogs collar as the kid pets, that way the dog cannot jump up and knock over the child. Same with elderly people. With people I know I'd tell them to turn around or step out of the dog's reach if the dog jumps and with adults I don't know I'd walk the dog away from the person when he jumps (saying something like " oh we don't want any jumping" as I walked backwards so the person knows why we are doing it) and try again or if the person got in a few pets and seems done then you can end interaction, it still gets the point across.

Also remember dogs think new things are AWESOME. so the more people the dog meets the less "new" people in general become and the more calm the dog should become around them.
__________________
~Erin~



Thank you ~Dixie's Mom~ for my awesome siggy!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-18-2008, 10:44 AM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
I'm not saying you were suggesting she does not have the dog ever interact with people I'm just saying I think interacting is much more important than just watching. I do think walking around people without meeting them is important too, that way they learn not every person is going to get a greeting but that can make a dog calm walking around them but still exuberant during interaction.
I pretty much do half and half -- about half the people they meet as pups pet them. I decide who pets them and who doesn't, and the people who pet them are the ones who can do so according to my rules.

I also find that the worst offenders are people who work in animal related jobs - people who work at pet stores and the techs and receptionists at the vet's office.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-18-2008, 10:51 AM
Doberluv's Avatar
Doberluv Doberluv is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: western Wa
Posts: 21,907
Default

Quote:
Socializing with people doesn't mean the dog needs to be petted by everyone. The dog can be near people and is being socialized to them. It's much easier to train correctly from the onset than to untrain/retrain later.
Oh, I think it does mean that. I think a puppy before the age of 4-5 months should have been "examined" by loads of people....had his ears looked at, his teeth, every square inch of his body handled in a variety of ways, pleasant ways, having the top of his head stroked, treats included. He should have experienced people of all age groups, wearing different kinds of clothing, carrying different objects, doing different things; jogging, skate boarding, riding bikes, jumping up and down. Kids from infants to toddlers, from 3 to 7 years old, from 7 to teenagers, from there to adults to old people. Men with beards, men without beards, people carrying umbrellas. A dog should experience all kinds of friendly, tolerant, healthy pups and adult dogs in a variety of contexts....every day. Improvershed socialization is probably the biggest cause of dog bites, fearful, shy behavior and misery for dogs and owners. It's probably the biggest cause of dogs being dumped in shelters and killed due to their "bad behavior."

It is not not beneficial to insist on perfect adult behavior from a 4 month old baby. They can learn to sit nicely as Red described. Treats help. Consistency is important. What I'm trying to get across is that trying to train a puppy with rigidity and too much seriousness can cause more harm than good. People are so amazed and aghast at normal dog behavior, normal puppy behavior. As they mature, these nice behaviors, with reasonable guidance from you will come about. Maturity has a lot to do with it. Lots of dogs recieve hardly any formal training and stop jumping. When I see adult dogs jumping up on people, it is usually dogs that receive no exercise, no outlet for their exuberance, no constructive training, no consistency at all. And they, in fact receive plenty of reinforcement for jumping up.

Like I said, maturity helps dogs learn. It is good to set the stage when they're little sponges and start working on these things. I just like to see people lighten up a wee bit and let their puppies have a child hood and not expect them to grow up all at once.

And I'd much rather see a little puppy jumping on people and being obnoxious to people who can put up with a little bit of that for a while....than seeing an adult dog who views people, touching and handling from people in the huge variety of ways people touch and pat and every day things as something abnormal or novel. It's the dogs that are not handled copiously that end up with behavior problems. You can still work on these skills but not by preventing handling from people.
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-18-2008, 10:56 AM
Angelique's Avatar
Angelique Angelique is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 547
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
I pretty much do half and half -- about half the people they meet as pups pet them. I decide who pets them and who doesn't, and the people who pet them are the ones who can do so according to my rules.
That's what I do. If they meet everyone they see, you are conditioning them a certain way and may end up with boundary frustration later on. By picking and choosing who they meet and greet, you are directing the activities (leadership), protecting them from unstable people, and teaching them to accept boundaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post

I also find that the worst offenders are people who work in animal related jobs - people who work at pet stores and the techs and receptionists at the vet's office.
Yikes! Sooo true!
__________________
************************************************** ***********************************

Reward the good, ignore the bad, and always remember to duck during the temper tantrums!

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" Albert Einstein

Here's to you, Jane Goodall. So much insight into the mind of a species from someone who's never trained a single chimp.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-18-2008, 11:14 AM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Quote:
It is not not beneficial to insist on perfect adult behavior from a 4 month old baby.
No one said they should have perfect adult behaviors as a pup. But I do believe in setting boundaries and everything I teach, I keep in mind "what do I want this to become". A four month old is able to be learning boundaries, and a 4 months old is past the imprinting age. Much of the handling should be done before then.

I also see no reason for JQP to be examining my dog's ears and teeth. There are only two people who need to do that - myself and my vet. Also, my dogs don't need to be touched by JQP at all. The people in their adult lives who need to be able to touch them are me, my roommate, my vet, maybe a judge - depending on the type of competition I'm doing.

I've raised all my dogs with limitations on who can pet them and I've never had any issues with having an adult dog approached and petted by a stranger.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-18-2008, 11:32 AM
Doberluv's Avatar
Doberluv Doberluv is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: western Wa
Posts: 21,907
Default

I guess having had a breed which is notoriously harder to socialize due to selection and needing copious amounts of experiences, I have found it important to teach him to be unafraid of friendly strangers. He was still cautious of anyone who wasn't "normal." Caution is always the default setting in all animals. And curiosity diminishes as they leave the critical period, in dogs, at around 12-16 weeks of age. So, that is why I don't take chances with risking inample socialization. You can not over socialize a dog. They will always revert to their default setting when certain things are not covered.

And I didn't say that I don't set boundaries or teach a 4 month old dog anything. Of course I do. My Doberman was not jumping up on people within a couple of weeks of getting him which was at 9 weeks old. He learned his basics quite well by the time he was 6 months. It's just that when I read the o.p, she sounded quite worried about the fact that her pup was still jumping up on people and that they weren't helping matters, which I can totally understand. But by the same token, I wanted her not to worry too much because of the reasons stated and that it will all come together because she is conscious of it and not one of those people who do nothing with their dog. I think the pup will be just fine and will learn her manners all in due course.
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-18-2008, 11:42 AM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
I guess having had a breed which is notoriously harder to socialize due to selection and needing copious amounts of experiences, I have found it important to teach him to be unafraid of friendly strangers.
I never had a problem with the GSDs or the mal. Nyx is another issue entirely. She is nervous about strangers, but only when they actually reach to pet her. Wlaking past her is fine. Standing near her is fine. And she will allow them to pet her, she just doesn't like it. But she also doesn't like for me to pet her.

Quote:
It's just that when I read the o.p, she sounded quite worried about the fact that her pup was still jumping up on people and that they weren't helping matters, which I can totally understand. But by the same token, I wanted her not to worry too much because of the reasons stated and that it will all come together because she is conscious of it and not one of those people who do nothing with their dog. I think the pup will be just fine and will learn her manners all in due course.
Yea, I agree that the OP doesn't need to be so worried about it, but I also wanted to point out that she doesn't need to let the non-helpful public pet her dog and she can just let the helpful people pet her dog.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-18-2008, 12:25 PM
Domestika's Avatar
Domestika Domestika is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: B.C., Canada
Posts: 1,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucid View Post
Id really love to hear what you have been taught by your trainer, as my dog has the exact same problem...
Basically, you have your pup sit beside you. Give treats for eye contact or "check ins". Another person approaches from quite a distance (we started at about 20 feet). The person approached slowly, not making eye contact, not talking to the dog (read: as uninteresting to the dog as possible). If the dog broke the sit, jumped up, etc. the person approaching came to a stop. When the dog settled back into a sit and made eye contact it was treated. Then the person continued to approach.

Once the person was able to calmly walk right up to the person and dog without the dog jumping/breaking the sit then we started over again with the person approaching acting far more exciting...jumping, clapping, running up to the dog, saying "puppy, puppy, puppy!!", etc.

It took most dogs maybe two or three attempts before they were sitting quietly and checking in with their owner while someone ran up, jumping and calling to them. My pup was less than three months old when we did this and she did it just fine. And she is very energetic and people-loving dog. So it can be done! It's just hard without any way to practise...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-18-2008, 12:26 PM
Domestika's Avatar
Domestika Domestika is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: B.C., Canada
Posts: 1,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brattina88 View Post
...Then you have to tell your dog to sit and make sure she does. If she gets up while being petted I said eh eh (more directed toward person!) and put myself between and asked for a sit again
hahaha, yeah I find that I'm correcting strangers far more than my dog. The dog is going to do doggy things...but there's no excuse for people not following commands!!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-18-2008, 12:28 PM
Domestika's Avatar
Domestika Domestika is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: B.C., Canada
Posts: 1,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brattina88 View Post
Oh - I wanted to mention that if you're planning on going further, like a CGC or something I personally had an issue with standing for examination or whatever because it was habit for her to sit! 6 years later and she still does it out of habit! i'm proud, though!
We've worked a lot on "stand". It was hard at first, but she knows the voice command and hand signal for stand and will do them quite reliably...at home with no distractions anyway! It's another story out of the house, of course.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:07 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site