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  #11  
Old 10-15-2008, 12:40 PM
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it's not a bully breed. it's a client at work's dog, which makes me a little hesitant to disclose breed. it is not a breed in which i am aware of there being any significant cardiac concerns, but i'm not hugely familiar with the breed. (if anybody really wants to know, i'll PM.)

personally i can't fathom not having a necropsy done.

it's too early to know if the breeding was successful. i truly hope it wasn't.
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2008, 01:00 PM
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oh, sorry to assume, elegy.

Awful awful happening any way you look at it.
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  #13  
Old 10-15-2008, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers View Post
I expect these dogs are APBTs or AmStaffs, and anyone in that breed knows that cardiac issues are not uncommon. Breeding these dogs without cardiac testing is playing with fire, for sure.
Red, you'd be astonished at how many people don't even consider cardiac health before breeding their dogs. Or maybe you wouldn't be. Disappointed is probably a better word. The number of cardiac results in the OFA database is pathetic, at least in my breed.
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  #14  
Old 10-15-2008, 06:11 PM
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When I was breeding , only OFA and CERT was important . Now I would definately do Heart , and more if available !
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2008, 08:46 AM
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This fact tells that you choose a bad stud. Mother Nature designed all those courting fore plays, fight and chasing to prevent physically bad males or otherwise inept males from mating. The toughest survives and succeeds, becoming a proven sire of new puppies. This is how it is in the wild. With dogs, we decide, which male is the best and often do to the contrary of what Mother Nature would do. You are lucky, if that male did not sire pups. Best proven at field performance males are best sires. Best show dog means nothing, except the picture. It is a hollow idea. Selecting only for show, we select sluggish, submissive, easy to handle, indifferent dogs, some of which can do not much, just wait being crated or relax on the sofa at home. Active, capable, discriminating and demanding to free exercsing dog has less chances to win at the show. This is how we select only for the picture, the function is missing.
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  #16  
Old 10-16-2008, 12:33 PM
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i never had an idea that this could happened...
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2008, 06:29 PM
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Just curious if the male has sired any other litters and how they did?
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  #18  
Old 10-16-2008, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamutt99 View Post
Red, you'd be astonished at how many people don't even consider cardiac health before breeding their dogs. Or maybe you wouldn't be. Disappointed is probably a better word. The number of cardiac results in the OFA database is pathetic, at least in my breed.
In many breeds, Bahamutt, as I am certain you know, it is pretty easy to tell who loves the breed, and who doesn't.

Those who love the breed consider the breed entire first above anything else when planning a breeding, confining their dogs, and presenting their dogs in public. Personal goals in the breed are always second to what is best for the breed as a whole.

Those who love the breed do ALL health testing, and disclose all the results.

Those who love the breed do this not because of peer pressure, or because it is a breed club requirement, or because that is what responsible people do, or because someone might find out.They do it because they truly love their breed, and will do only what is best for it.

just my opinionated opinion.....
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  #19  
Old 10-16-2008, 08:26 PM
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I think that too many people think that doing a cardiac exam once is "enough" (not like I can talk as neither of my dogs has had a cardiac exam yet). The more I learn about it, the more I think it's a test that should be done before each breeding of a bitch and I don't know how many times in a stud? Three at the least if he's being used as public stud...?

It's more like a CERF exam or Thyroid panel than hips/elbows/patellas/other.
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2008, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamutt99 View Post
The number of cardiac results in the OFA database is pathetic, at least in my breed.
There may be good reason for that. Looking at my breed, Dobermans, where they estimate that 50% of them die of dilated cardiomyopathy, we have cardiologists that refuse to fill out/sign OFA forms because it is a test for a moment in time. Not definitive. My own dogs see Dr. Mike O'Grady at OVC regularly, he's one of the world's top canine cardiologists. He will have nothing to do with the OFA cardiac database. While my dogs receive regular cardiac check-ups, one would never find them in the OFA cardiac database.
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