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  #1  
Old 10-15-2008, 06:04 AM
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Default what would you do?

you take your bitch to be bred. during the mating, the stud goes into respiratory arrest and is rushed to the vet where he dies.

do you have the litter or not? what would influence your decision?

(i don't know if a necropsy was done or not and i'm not sure how old the stud was. the bitch is just two and this is her first litter.)
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:20 AM
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I would need to know how old the stud was, what was the cause of the death etc. ... Was this an prior existing condition etc..
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:20 AM
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I would need more info and if that info was not known before hand....I would pay for the autopsy if I had to.
Worst case, I would pet the litter.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:29 AM
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I would want to know the status of the cardiac testing on the male.

I would want to know his age.

If the bitch has already caught not much you can do about it except as adojrts says, either place the litter as pets, OR place the promising puppies somewhere that you know they will be carefully screened, esp. regarding cardiac issues.

Other things could have caused the death of the dog such as an aneurism or a stroke. I also would have insisted on a necropsy even if I had to pay for it.

How sad!
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:13 AM
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i've no idea about health testing on the male or anything about him other than he keeled. the female had OFA hips and elbows but was never shown or titled or proven in any way.

i wish i had more details.

if you opt to place them as pets, do you fully disclose what happened to the father to the prospective owner? you'd have to, right? i can't see not.
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  #6  
Old 10-15-2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elegy View Post
i've no idea about health testing on the male or anything about him other than he keeled. the female had OFA hips and elbows but was never shown or titled or proven in any way.

i wish i had more details.

if you opt to place them as pets, do you fully disclose what happened to the father to the prospective owner? you'd have to, right? i can't see not.
I would want to know before I agreed to get one of their pups, even as a pet. I think it would be the ethical thing to do IMO.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:33 AM
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OMG! that's horrible!

if she is pregnant(which I hope she isn't as that will just make the decision easy!), I think you should tell the new owners whether or not they're placed as pets.

But, first you need to find out exactly what happened to the male.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:09 PM
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Agree with the testing .....I'd be tempted to abort the litter if there was an enlarged heart ..................
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  #9  
Old 10-15-2008, 12:13 PM
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I would absolutely think that full disclosure would be in order.

Puppies can be auscultated at 8 weeks. I have all puppies listened to before they leave.

If it were my bitch and puppies, I would want at least an auscultation by an ACVIM Cardiologist after 12 months, and I would require all results be disclosed on the OFA website. I expect these dogs are APBTs or AmStaffs, and anyone in that breed knows that cardiac issues are not uncommon. Breeding these dogs without cardiac testing is playing with fire, for sure.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:17 PM
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As others have said I would definitely pay for the necropsy to find out if a genetic problem caused the collapse.

During the necropsy I would want special attention paid to the cardiac/pulmonary system. Was it a congenital problem that caused cardiac valvular disease, pulmonary fibrosis, or aortic stenosis?

If any genetic problem is found then it's not OK to go ahead with the whelping. I do not think it's OK to go ahead and place all the pups as "just" pets. Potential purchasers who plan to keep an animal as "just" a pet don't deserve to be saddled with known genetic health issues anymore than potential owners who plan to work or show a dog.

If any genetic issue is found and whomever bred these two dogs decides to go ahead anyway then yes, it's imperative to tell potential owners about what happened to the sire, even if that means having a devil of a time placing pups. For that matter, even if no genetic problem is found it's still imperative to tell potential owners about what happened ... but in that case it can be emphasized that the problem was not genetic according to information from the sire's necropsy. This way THEY can decide if they still want to buy a pup or not, and be able to decide with full information disclosed.

Informed puppy buyers would find out anyway, just from their own questions to the breeder regarding the dam and sire. If the breeder of these two dogs were to try placing the pups without disclosing what happened, then what would they do in the face of purchaser questions ... would they decide to lie? Attempts at non-disclosure would be dishonest, not to mention potentially violating puppy "lemon laws" in some areas.
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