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  #11  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:24 PM
RedyreRottweilers
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This one is better.

http://www.hometown.aol.com/gdcofpai...age/index.html
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:26 PM
RedyreRottweilers
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Another good one. http://trfn.clpgh.org/gdcwp/
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  #13  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:30 PM
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thank you...

Thanks Grammy
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  #14  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:34 PM
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How far "in the past" should they be? should there be a number of successful breedings after that that I should look for or should I just look to make sure they aren't using the same breed pairings?
Eeeek... I don't really know. If it were me, I'd say at LEAST one year and hopefully more than that. It would make me wonder if someone made a tragic mistake with one litter and then immediately had a second or bred the dog again immediately. Maxy has a really great point, too, about if it's an environmental issue - I was only thinking of genetic ones.

I wouldn't worry about having a number of successful breedings afterwards, though. If the person has LEARNED from their mistakes and is not repeating them and doing everything responsibly the next time, I don't see a problem. If there are successive breedings after bad ones, though, I would look at them with a critical eye and get all the info you can from the breeder about them, and make a judgment then. If they have repeated mistakes with litters, I really wouldn't buy from them; the same goes if they withhold info from you.

What ARE the problems they've had with litters? Virus outbreaks, genetic problems, or temperament issues?
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:45 PM
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Eeeek... I don't really know. If it were me, I'd say at LEAST one year and hopefully more than that. It would make me wonder if someone made a tragic mistake with one litter and then immediately had a second or bred the dog again immediately. Maxy has a really great point, too, about if it's an environmental issue - I was only thinking of genetic ones.

I wouldn't worry about having a number of successful breedings afterwards, though. If the person has LEARNED from their mistakes and is not repeating them and doing everything responsibly the next time, I don't see a problem. If there are successive breedings after bad ones, though, I would look at them with a critical eye and get all the info you can from the breeder about them, and make a judgment then. If they have repeated mistakes with litters, I really wouldn't buy from them; the same goes if they withhold info from you.

What ARE the problems they've had with litters? Virus outbreaks, genetic problems, or temperament issues?

I'm really not sure... most of them just said that many of the puppies were stillborn... there was a couple that had one that 4 out of 5 pups were stillborn (i can't remember the number of pups now but I know it was like only one that survived) Just wondering what would cause so many to be still born. and they bred the dam again after that but not for a while and she had a successful breeding then. This was a boxer though.
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  #16  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:46 PM
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I'm really not sure... most of them just said that many of the puppies were stillborn... there was a couple that had one that 4 out of 5 pups were stillborn (i can't remember the number of pups now but I know it was like only one that survived) Just wondering what would cause so many to be still born. and they bred the dam again after that but not for a while and she had a successful breeding then. This was a boxer though.
Weird.... maybe starting a thread on that might get more info on why pups are stillborn. I have no idea.
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  #17  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:47 PM
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you are talking puppy deaths?

Mortality rate according to Savant Harris is about 20-25% and I've found that to be true. In litters where you have 4-5 pups that might be only one, maybe two...if you have a bigger litter...and Danes I think throw litters into the teens often enough...the numbers might be commeasurably higher.

Myriad reasons as to why...inexperience (this can happen more than once BTW...every whelping has the potential to bring up something you have NEVER seen before), bad luck, bad mothering by the bitch (I'd imagine laying on or stepping on, puppies is a HUGE HUGE problem with the Dane breed), infection, parasites, etc. That's just puppies on the ground...not accounting for fetal demise.

Just when you think you have things figured out, Mother Nature has something else to say.
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  #18  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:49 PM
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There can be a lot of reasons for stillborn puppies that may not have anything to do with the breeder's actual choices or ethics.

In utero herpes infections can kill or cause puppies to be born dead or die shortly afterward.

Puppies who are born early have a very poor survival rate, and in dogs, with the gestation being so short, it does not have to be a LOT early either.

Other causes can be onset of labor that was not recognized which did not progress, such as primary uterine inertia.
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  #19  
Old 10-14-2008, 03:51 PM
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"stillborn" can be a result of so many things. Many people give up too easily. If you have tricks and tips you can save many more pups that might otherwise have gotten that appellation. Not everyone knows that tho...which doesn't make them bad people or bad breeders. After all it's doubtful the old skool farmer man type breeders was giving puppies oxygen, working for hours, and putting them in warm water to get them going....right?

That raised other questions and ethical dilemmas tho...SHOULD you revive a puppy that is dead appearing on arrival? What if there is something wrong that won't show up til later in life? It might be the best puppy in the litter phenotypically....and you'll likely forget all about the rough start once it's 2-3 years old...so...you might be perpetuation a cycle...who knows?

In large litters...uterus space is at a premium and some pups get plenty while others not enough to form properly. Improper vaccination or lack of various nutrients can account for some. So many reasons.
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  #20  
Old 10-14-2008, 04:31 PM
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If you find a breeders on Long Island that interest you I would be more than willing to visit them for you! and give you pics if they allow me to take them....
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