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  #31  
Old 10-21-2008, 11:01 AM
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I was just watching some youtube videos and it's surprising how none of the dogs fail. They put them in such non distracting dead quite rooms and magically they are some kind of world class dog trainer. I'd like to see them teach a new behavior to an untrained dog in the midst of barking dogs and running squirrels like most of us in the real world. My pup is a rocket scientist in a quiet room, but outside she's not ready for Kindergarten. I suspect that's many peoples reality and not what is portrayed on Youtube.
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  #32  
Old 10-21-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
I'd like to see them teach a new behavior to an untrained dog in the midst of barking dogs and running squirrels like most of us in the real world.
That is how most people try to train their dogs which brings with it a lot of struggle and confusion to the dog. But most good, professional trainers know better.

They begin teaching a new behavior....in a very non-stimulating, boring room to start. Once the dog becomes fairly reliable that way, you increase the distractions in installments, very gradually, starting on the lowest rung, from mild on up. Trying to teach a new behavior out in real life situations is going to decrease the chance for success and reinforcement which is what increases the odds for learning. For example, your focus/eye contact behavior.... Trying it out as a new behavior, where there are competing motivators (other dogs, children running, squirrels zipping up trees) is setting a dog up to fail. So you begin training in your living room where it is quiet and deadly dull. The stronger the history of reinforcment, the more opportunity for success, the more likely you'll get more correct responses in the future.
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  #33  
Old 10-21-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
So you begin training in your living room where it is quiet and deadly dull. The stronger the history of reinforcment, the more opportunity for success, the more likely you'll get more correct responses in the future.
Great point. I'm starting to learn that and I think I need to take this training outside now but with fewer distractions. I feel another video coming
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  #34  
Old 10-21-2008, 01:48 PM
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I think it might also help you to SLOW DOWN. :P I know it's tempting to rush stuff with a bright dog, but building a really good foundation now means less retraining later when something breaks.
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  #35  
Old 10-21-2008, 02:49 PM
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Hi Dogstar, that is a great point. I asked that question a while back and was told as long as she's still learning, I'm not going too fast so I kept going.

Ok, here she is outside with minimal amount of distractions. Good job!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHhqMw6dpw

I had planned to do one over closer to busy road noise and more people but as we walked over she spotted a squirrel. You can imagine what happened next Notice how long it took me to get her refocused. It's much worse when she sees a dog. I don't expect her not to be interested in the fuzzy moving thing, but I would like to be able to refocus her more quickly and she can't be allowed to chase anything without my permission. I guess she thought it was better to asked for forgiveness than permission in this case. If that squirrel would have hung around I would still be trying to get her to refocus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iM0E9XWbHA

I need to do a "meet a dog" video and show everyone where I am on this. BTW, this is all on a rolled collar.
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  #36  
Old 10-21-2008, 03:05 PM
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Something that I have noticed while reading this thread is the OP keeps referring to hot dogs as the treats/rewards.
Hot dogs are not great rewards, especially if that is all you use. They are high in salt.
All good trainers know that to be successful, you need a Training Trail Mix.
In the Trail Mix you have kibble as a low reward (for slow responses) and other rewards that the dog REALLY LOVES for awesome responses. You have to find out what will make your dog come out of its skin for a certain reward. My dog goes nuts for baked sardines or baked salmon cakes. Homemade baked liver is in the middle.

To give an example, listed from low to high rewards.

kibble, rollover, natural balance, homemade liver, chicken, turkey, cheese, fried egg, cheeseburger, steak, sardines, salmon cakes, quail hearts.

If someone held a dollar bill and told me that I had to go sit in a chair to recieve it I would do it, but hold a $1000 out and nobody had better get in my way to that chair!!!!!!!!
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  #37  
Old 10-21-2008, 04:26 PM
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I use hot dogs as high reward treats with Sarama, but only for that. They are too high in salt to use all the time, and more importantly, you shouldn't use your best things all the time!!

Adojrts, where on earth are you getting quail hearts, and where do I find some? Short of catching quail and tearing out their still beating hearts like some sort of second-rate Aztec priest that is.
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  #38  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:19 PM
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I with ya' on the quail heart thing. I don't know how long I could keep those little hearts beating in my pocket anyway. I need something that is easy for me as well as interesting to the pup.
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  #39  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:42 PM
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Adojrts made a good point about the treats. I use hotdogs and cheese (mozzarella or cheddar) as the very highest reward for my dogs. I only use it when they're under a lot of distraction, or when I need them to REALLY like a behavior. For general training in the house I usually use kibble and/or pieces of biscuits, or maybe liver treats if I'm teaching something hard. If you save your best treats for the best behaviors, that keeps the best treats still the best. Like, I love chocolate cake, but if I ate it every day I'd get sick of it. Same with treats - if you only give them hotdogs, not only will hotdogs loose their value, but other lesser treats will as well since they're not as good as hotdogs.
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  #40  
Old 10-21-2008, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilavati View Post
I use hot dogs as high reward treats with Sarama, but only for that. They are too high in salt to use all the time, and more importantly, you shouldn't use your best things all the time!!

Adojrts, where on earth are you getting quail hearts, and where do I find some? Short of catching quail and tearing out their still beating hearts like some sort of second-rate Aztec priest that is.
lol the quail hearts are freeze dried and come from a local vender that makes all kinds of cool dog treats, all natural etc.
I don't know if they ship to the states or not but I can find out. I am going to an agility trial next month and they should be set up there. They are also located just in the next town from me and I can give him a call.

The quail hearts even freeze dried are still soft and not badly dried out, easy but not messy to split in two. I was really surprised at how much my dogs went nuts for them.............so I use them at trials as a huge reward for a job well done or when training something really difficult.
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