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Old 10-13-2008, 02:27 PM
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BostonBanker BostonBanker is offline
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I should clarify - until a couple of years ago, I had no issues with horse slaughter. I'm not foolish enough to think that animals care what happens to their bodies after death. I don't oppose the slaughter of horses per se; I oppose the way horse slaughter occurs. Some of the issues I have with it:

- Yes, the transport is absolutely inappropriate, as mentioned above.

- There needs to be a better way to do the killing. The bolts used on cattle are much harder to use correctly on horses. Smaller heads attached to longer necks and generally taller animals means it is much harder to hit the target. Death needs to be extremely quick, not take a couple of shots to get it right.

higher rates of abandonment and cruelty incidents in the USA (because horses as pets are just as likely to have improper owners as cats & dogs). ALL of which was predicted by the various horse breed organizations the majority of whom OPPOSED legislation ending humane slaughter at US facilities.
I think this is a very complicated aspect of it. The underlying issue is that there are far too many horses out there for the number of homes (sound familiar?). Horses have crappy BYBers just like dogs do. They breed piece of crap to piece of crap, then sell the offspring. If they can't sell them to a new owner, they can sell them by the pound to the meat man. There is no 'punishment' for breeding a generally worthless horse, because someone will give you money for it. I would compare it to the whole BYB problem with dogs. Yes, the cute puppy in the petstore deserves to have a caring home, but if you spend the $800 to bring it home, you are simply supporting an inhumane industry. It's not until we take away the ability of BYBers to make money that we will shut down those industries.

I don't know what the right answer is. It is too complicated for such a simple answer as "make slaughter legal again" or "make it illegal". If they could find a truly humane way to slaughter horses, I wouldn't have an issue with it. Death is death, and what happens to the body after isn't an issue to me. But I think making slaughter humane will cost the industry way too much money, so I don't see it happening. In the meantime, I will be happy that the much beloved, 28 year old schoolhorse at our barn laid down quietly in the field last night, surrounded by his herdmates, and died there. And I will continue to mourn the very well-bred warmblood mare I knew, whose breeder had promised her new owner should would buy the horse back if she ever needed to get rid of it, and who died in a slaughterhouse.

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Old 10-13-2008, 04:53 PM
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When I lived in a different County I paid for licenses and had to pay more for each unfixed dog than the fixed one . The County Clerk knew us and I swear none of my neighbors paid anything !!!
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:25 AM
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I absolutely agree that ALL slaughtered animals should be dealt with humanely. IMHO the main reason there are even incidents is because all the meat slaughtered in this country has to be kosher and so animals are stunned to be bled out (even animals that can never be kosher like pigs & horses). if all animals were required to be killed instead of stunned it would change the procedure. animals would be bolted in the medulla and die instantly w/o any chance for an incident.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:31 AM
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Gypsydals Gypsydals is offline
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Originally Posted by ACooper View Post
As to why I disagree with it? More restrictions on MY rights, and again............laws only affect the law abiding.
And in some ways I agree with Red, like it or not, pets are our property. For the most part we have paid for them in some fashion. Either by adoption fees, buying from a breeder, or heck even paying for our yearly dog tags. We don't get told by the goverment what color of vehicle we can buy, what make or model to get. So by the heavens above I don't want to be told I can't own a spotted dog or a brindle dog(Because eventually EVERY brindled type dog will be viewed as a pit). Just as every blk & tan dog will either be viewed as a rottie or dobie.

In the end ACooper hit it on the nail. The laws are only going to affect the people who follow them now.

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Old 10-19-2008, 10:21 AM
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sillysally sillysally is offline
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Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
What is your definition of "humane slaughter"? I disagree with horse slaughter and am glad that it has been banned in the US. Am I a Petaphile?
Just FYI, horse slaughter has not been banned in the US. It has been banned for human consumption, that is all. Horses can still be slaughtered for zoo animal food, etc.There is an auction house about an hour from here that most certainly has a kill pen still.

In addition, what is happening now is that rather than being slaughtered here, horses are being shipped out of the country, namely to Mexico. Let's just say that Mexican slaughter houses do not have to follow the same laws as the American ones did.

There are 60,000 to 100,000 unwanted horses a year in the US. There is no shelter system that puts unadoptable/unwanted horses down. With the economy the way it is, rescues are supposed to just absorb all those horses? People are literally giving horses away. At a race track in central Indiana they actually gave away 200 horses.

Either way, however, I don't think that you are a pedophile.....

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Old 10-19-2008, 12:07 PM
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In addition, what is happening now is that rather than being slaughtered here, horses are being shipped out of the country, namely to Mexico. Let's just say that Mexican slaughter houses do not have to follow the same laws as the American ones did.
True. And the horror stories have not gone away. For most, they just are no longer our problem. The screaming has since stopped although many of the horses are dying while in transport, they are literally crammed in there so tightly that they are on top of each other, and heaven only knows how "humane" Mexican slaughter is.......or is not.

(this is common practice in Mexican horse slaughter:

Recent investigations by the San Antonio News-Express reveal that the use of the “puntilla knife” on horses prior to slaughter is common practice in Mexican slaughter plants. Footage shows horses being repeatedly stabbed in the neck with these knives prior to slaughter. Such a barbaric practice does not render the horse unconscious, it simply paralyzes the animal. The horse is still fully conscious at the start of the slaughter process during which the animal is hung by a hind leg, its throat slit and its body butchered)

Banning something is never the answer. It's just another way to get rid of a problem one doesn't want to deal with. But that problem doesn't just go away because it was told to (via banning).

And as for the consumption of dog meat, if dog slaughter was completely HUMANE and the animals didn't suffer, I could care less what happens to the body afterwards. As it is, most people prefer their animals to end up in an incinerator somewhere. IMO if someone could not starve to death thanks to the consumption of dog meat, then have at it.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:28 PM
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adojrts adojrts is offline
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I haven't read the thread, (and I will but can't right now), as for only dogs being allowed to breed if they are AKC/CKC registered absolutely NOT.
That is going on the assumption that kennel club is the only and best game in town, which I don't believe for one second. For working breeds I believe the opposite is true.
I would take a working breed that comes from a non kennel club but legit registry any day over KC.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:39 PM
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Bahamutt99 Bahamutt99 is offline
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Well, to the original question, since all my dogs are UKC/ADBA, I would certainly be against AKC/CKC mandatory-ness. I can't get AKC papers on my dogs even if I wanted to. There are some people who don't register their dogs at all because they think that registries are a waste of time. Not saying I agree with those people or would get a dog from them, but I don't think their program should be wiped out either.
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