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  #51  
Old 09-05-2008, 09:25 AM
Kela
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Originally Posted by Reggin View Post
I STRONGLY disagree with you. You cannot erase genetics. These dogs were created to kill other dogs. Its something that is ingraned in them. To breed them for dog aggression and then turn around and fault them for that is very wrong. Thats like faulting a border collie for its instinct to herd.

I do think that dog aggression should not be saught after. In other words, I dont think APBT breeders should intentionally breed for it, because dog fighting is outlawed. DA only creates a hasle for owners to deal with. This is why owners have to be dedicated to properly owning this breed. DA is now useless to this breed. These dogs are family dogs now, not fighting dogs.
I'm well aware that you can't erase genetics, and that, I feel, is unfortunate for the breed. If you COULD magically erase genetics, wouldn't it be beneficial for everyone if they did? My fear is that plenty of people wouldn't do that since they think thats the basis for the breed.

With the huge popularity surge of the breed, we've got irresponsible owners all over the place who can't control their dogs. I don't think that we need to perpetuate a breed that was bred for a purpose that is illegal now. 200 years ago, or whenever they were being bred to fight, isn't who we are today. If people created a human aggressive breed a few hundred years ago, we wouldn't be obligated to "not fault" the dog for being such.

I'm not saying that its a fault of the breed, but its a huge fault to me of any dog, ingrained in their heads or not. I don't think that letting dogs lunge at each other at competitions or breeding an animal that's in over supply and in the hands of so many irresponsible owners is responsible. I feel that they're the ones punishing the breed. If there were as many pit bulls as there are ....I don't know, Lowchens, then we'd have a totally different situation on our hands.
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  #52  
Old 09-05-2008, 10:17 AM
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Chewbecca Chewbecca is offline
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Dog aggression isn't the BASIS of the breed at all. It's simply part of the breed. And it's a part of a breed that requires a responsible human to, well, be responsible with. Greyhound owners don't let their dogs run off leash, do they? Not unless the dog is in an enclosed area, right?
Well, I'm sure some do, or have, so should greyhounds stop being bred?

What about all the over-breeding of labs that have created some HA, unstable labs? You can ask member here, Miakoda, about unstable, HA labs.
Should labs stop being shown and bred or used for field work?
No, dog aggression is of no use to the breed anymore. The responsible owners and breeders I've met and spoken to? Yeah, they don't breed dogs to fight.
And the ones I've met? yeah, they don't give their puppies to irresponsible owners.

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I don't think that letting dogs lunge at each other at competitions or breeding an animal that's in over supply and in the hands of so many irresponsible owners is responsible. I feel that they're the ones punishing the breed.
And an irresponsible person, with their dog aggressive dog in a ring with lunging and pulling at other dogs, would've allowed their dog to get to the other ones. I think it's pretty responsible that the owners were able to keep their dogs from getting to the other dogs.

I don't think any responsible breeders go, "hm...let me breed my MOST dog aggressive APBT to my OTHER most dog aggressive APBT, to produce the most dog aggressive off spring known to man."

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I'm not saying that its a fault of the breed, but its a huge fault to me of any dog, ingrained in their heads or not.
huh?
This makes no sense. It's like you contradict yourself...or something.
Which is it? The fault of the dogs or the fault of the...dogs?
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  #53  
Old 09-05-2008, 12:56 PM
Squishy22
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Originally Posted by Kela View Post
I'm well aware that you can't erase genetics, and that, I feel, is unfortunate for the breed. If you COULD magically erase genetics, wouldn't it be beneficial for everyone if they did? My fear is that plenty of people wouldn't do that since they think thats the basis for the breed.

With the huge popularity surge of the breed, we've got irresponsible owners all over the place who can't control their dogs. I don't think that we need to perpetuate a breed that was bred for a purpose that is illegal now. 200 years ago, or whenever they were being bred to fight, isn't who we are today. If people created a human aggressive breed a few hundred years ago, we wouldn't be obligated to "not fault" the dog for being such.

I'm not saying that its a fault of the breed, but its a huge fault to me of any dog, ingrained in their heads or not. I don't think that letting dogs lunge at each other at competitions or breeding an animal that's in over supply and in the hands of so many irresponsible owners is responsible. I feel that they're the ones punishing the breed. If there were as many pit bulls as there are ....I don't know, Lowchens, then we'd have a totally different situation on our hands.
And this is why certain breeds are not for everyone. I think its ridiculous to say that DA should be a serious fault in a breed who was used for dog fighting. I guess it would be better to just get rid of the breed alltogether since getting rid of the dog aggression aspect is unrealistic.

DA can be managable and quite easily. Dont let your dog run loose... keep him properly contained. This goes for any dog as a matter of fact, so I dont really see the problem here. Do you know that in the wrong hands, guardian breeds can become extremely dangerous to humans? ANY dog can become dangerous in the wrong hands. Thats nothing new. The problem is not the breed, its the owners!

It is also acceptable for certain other breeds to show aggression to other dogs in the ring. This isnt just a pit bull thing. I believe the same goes for dogo argentinos.
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  #54  
Old 09-05-2008, 01:25 PM
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I don't think DA is really useful in Dogos, they are bred to work with each other as catch dogs, can't have your dogs fighting with each other instead of catching the hog .

Back to the main topic of the thread: all those dogs are gorgeous! Great pics!
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  #55  
Old 09-05-2008, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbecca View Post

To breed DA out of the APBT would be to change the breed entirely. And some people prefer their APBTs just the way they are.
bingo.

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I'm well aware that you can't erase genetics, and that, I feel, is unfortunate for the breed. If you COULD magically erase genetics, wouldn't it be beneficial for everyone if they did?
When you start tampering around with things that don't need fixing you are going to end up with a different dog...why go about trying to "fix" a problem that is perfectly acceptable? DA is seen in MANY breeds.

beneficial to everyone? What would be beneficial about it?....besides making the breed easier to own? I suppose I can't speak for pit bull owners as I do not own one right now, but making this breed "easier to own" is the last thing I would want. This breed isn't for everyone, and as selfish as it may sound i'd prefer to keep it that way. If you can't handle DA or are willing to accept it, find another breed....simple as that.

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My fear is that plenty of people wouldn't do that since they think thats the basis for the breed
DA is NOT the basis of this breed, and I personally don't know of any "pit bull" people who do believe that.




anywho..... again, gorgeous photos chewbecca, each time I come back to this thread I look them over again
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  #56  
Old 09-05-2008, 09:54 PM
Kela
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Originally Posted by Danegirl2208 View Post
beneficial to everyone? What would be beneficial about it?....besides making the breed easier to own? I suppose I can't speak for pit bull owners as I do not own one right now, but making this breed "easier to own" is the last thing I would want. This breed isn't for everyone, and as selfish as it may sound i'd prefer to keep it that way. If you can't handle DA or are willing to accept it, find another breed....simple as that.
Err...if DA was somehow magically removed, it WOULD be for everyone. Don't all pit bull owners swear up and down that they're the best family pets ever? Great with kids, kind and gentle, they've only got one flaw in my eyes. Remove that, and you just might have a fabulous pet instead of a dangerous one in the hands of the wrong person.

I'd wager that most pet owners aren't responsible. Maybe its just my lack of faith in humanity that doesn't allow me to do anything but cringe.
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  #57  
Old 09-05-2008, 10:31 PM
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DA dogs CAN be controlled and trained. No one is saying its acceptable for a dog to be constantly lunging and snarling when there isnt even a dog in sight, but you have to understand once a dog enters a DA dogs space (which can range from anywhere but its up to the own to raise that threshold as high as possible) there will react and the owners must be on top of their game 100% of the time. They ARE great family dogs, DA or not .
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  #58  
Old 09-05-2008, 10:42 PM
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Beautiful dogs in the pics. I've looked at them several times. I love sketching pits just because of their beautiful conditioning.

To me, I could never own a dog that DA, but that's why there are other breeds out there.

(btw my roomie is looking over my shoulder wondering why I'm calling pits 'dumbasses'. Isn't it great how we have our own shorthand?)
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  #59  
Old 09-05-2008, 10:59 PM
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Also, I know for a d@mn fact that if I, and WHEN I, bring Ella to a show to be shown for fun, she is going to act JUST AS dog aggressive as those dogs do.
And I train her and work with her. Except, Ella will probably try to do something those dogs didn't do: She will try to back out of her collar because she'll be that frantic.
Won't that undo a lot of the CAT training you are doing now?

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(btw my roomie is looking over my shoulder wondering why I'm calling pits 'dumbasses'. Isn't it great how we have our own shorthand?)
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  #60  
Old 09-05-2008, 11:21 PM
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Chewbecca Chewbecca is offline
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Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post
Won't that undo a lot of the CAT training you are doing now?
It may, it may not. Who knows. Do you?
I have no idea where we'll be with that training by the time of the next show.
And even if it is successful, who's to say how successful it'll be when there are at least 7 other dogs barking at her/near her?
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