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  #71  
Old 08-16-2008, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewbecca View Post
But I don't know what this encounter will do to ANY progress we MIGHT HAVE made last night.
Be sure to tell the trainer about it so she can be prepared for any setback that might be there.
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  #72  
Old 08-16-2008, 06:33 PM
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Be sure to tell the trainer about it so she can be prepared for any setback that might be there.
I just called her and left her a message.
She SHOULD know.
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  #73  
Old 08-18-2008, 01:23 PM
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Oh, also I should mention that AFTER our session, my trainer had her dog in a downstay out of Ella's view. Well, my trainer came over to us to talk about the session.
I gave Ella to my husband to hold onto because my hands were tired, and my trainer's dog broke her downstay (she's a very well behaved dog and obedient, but no dog is a saint ALL THE TIME) and she came bouncing over to us.
Am I the only one here that is outraged about this story? I'm interested in this thread- the DA is a serious problem, and this training seems like it could work well, but only if it is handled expertly. How can the person in charge of the training create this disaster? A trainer should know whether or not their own dog will hold a down stay. If they don't, I'm already questioning their competence. And, they should also understand how important it is that nothing goes wrong during these sessions. So, either this trainer did not understand the importance of perfection in this technique, or she did not understand the training on her own dog.

I don't want to be the naysayer, but if you are serious about using this method to fix Ella's DA, I would look around and find someone who takes the training more seriously or is more competent or BOTH. The trainer should be the expert here and should not be making major blunders in the work. I won't even get into the part where the lesson wasn't planned with enough time to finish the session correctly. I'm really pleased that Ella handled this situation better than expected, thrilled that it didn't seem to set her back, but do realize that this is blind luck. The next stupid mistake may end very differently.
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  #74  
Old 08-18-2008, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sch3Dana View Post
Am I the only one here that is outraged about this story? I'm interested in this thread- the DA is a serious problem, and this training seems like it could work well, but only if it is handled expertly. How can the person in charge of the training create this disaster? A trainer should know whether or not their own dog will hold a down stay. If they don't, I'm already questioning their competence. And, they should also understand how important it is that nothing goes wrong during these sessions. So, either this trainer did not understand the importance of perfection in this technique, or she did not understand the training on her own dog.

I don't want to be the naysayer, but if you are serious about using this method to fix Ella's DA, I would look around and find someone who takes the training more seriously or is more competent or BOTH. The trainer should be the expert here and should not be making major blunders in the work. I won't even get into the part where the lesson wasn't planned with enough time to finish the session correctly. I'm really pleased that Ella handled this situation better than expected, thrilled that it didn't seem to set her back, but do realize that this is blind luck. The next stupid mistake may end very differently.

Oh, er...hi! I don't know you, but hi!

Normally my trainer's dog WON'T break her downstay. She just happened to that night and, she would NOT have left her dog in a downstay, out of our view, had she thought her dog would break a downstay.

And no, it didn't set Ella back, and that's good.
Now, the off leash lab that ran up into her face the next day on our walk?
THAT might have set her back. But as I said going into this...even if it doesn't work, ok, so I have what?
A dog aggressive Ella? I already have that now.

And I seriously want SOMETHING to work, but maybe my expectations are low because I go into new things without expecting them to work.
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  #75  
Old 08-18-2008, 03:06 PM
Sch3Dana Sch3Dana is offline
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Hi

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I really wish you luck in your training. I know how stressful DA is. I also know that it is controllable if not fixable. You should not have to walk your neighborhood in constant fear that another dog will come close and Ella will blow her stack. But your expectations have to be high. You have to believe that the training matters and that it will work.

I would not lower your expectations. There are trainers out there who can help you get a handle on this. People who have trained many dogs with this same problem- it's not unusual, after all. I hope your trainer does help you. I'm just disappointed that she let this mistake happen at such a crucial time in the training. I trained dogs professionally for 8 years and had demo dogs out much of the time so I know what it's like. And I know this is a serious error on the part of the trainer in charge.
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  #76  
Old 08-18-2008, 03:57 PM
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chew - i find this fascinating... sort of a "doggie zen" kind of training! keep posting, I'm enjoying it and hope it is successful so you can enjoy a pleasant walk with Ella.
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  #77  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:28 PM
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Gotta get to bed, but wanted to mention.
HUGE break through for Ella tonight.
HUGE.
Like, I ALMOST cried, huge.

My trainer and her dog got 15' from us, and Ella laid herself down, TOTALLY relaxed and COMFORTABLE. With soft eyes, soft ears, soft body language.
TOTALLY comfortable. Even LOOKED at my trainer's dog for a few seconds (like, almost eye contact, but definitely straight in the face, look), and then moved her eyes away without reacting.

And when I say she laid down, on her own, 15' from my trainer's dog, I mean she laid down, on one hip, with the other hip swung out.
It's her standard "I am comfortable" position for laying down.

She even did the GI Joe body crawl forward. AW.
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  #78  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:43 PM
Sch3Dana Sch3Dana is offline
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That is really great news! Did all the lunging when she retreated stop too?

So, throw a little party, you all did good!

But, then get ready to do this with dozens more dogs to get a real change in her behavior. Anyone on here who is familiar with CAT and has an estimate of how many different dogs you generally need to do it with? And, the big final test, what do you do when she meets a dog on the street who is not neutral, ie, play soliciting or DA?
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  #79  
Old 08-23-2008, 05:07 AM
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If we meet a DA, loose dog on the streets, it doesn't matter HOW her behavior has changed/not changed towards dogs, she's screwed anyway.
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  #80  
Old 08-23-2008, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Sch3Dana View Post
That is really great news! Did all the lunging when she retreated stop too?

So, throw a little party, you all did good!

But, then get ready to do this with dozens more dogs to get a real change in her behavior. Anyone on here who is familiar with CAT and has an estimate of how many different dogs you generally need to do it with? And, the big final test, what do you do when she meets a dog on the street who is not neutral, ie, play soliciting or DA?
Each dog is different just like reactivity circumstances for each dog are different. For some dogs it has more to do with how many times you are in the ENVIRIONMENT that they react and use CAT. I've had cases where reactivity was in the home and it only took a few strangers until we were able to set up safe greeting plans without CAT.
On the walk with other dogs, this can still happen if Ella learns that if 'these' dogs are nothing to get worked up about ...then maybe dogs in general are OK.
Not to suggest that this will really ever get to the point where Ella plays with other strange dogs, it very possibly may never happen. Having her calming see another dog and not react....that would be great!



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Originally Posted by Chewbecca View Post
If we meet a DA, loose dog on the streets, it doesn't matter HOW her behavior has changed/not changed towards dogs, she's screwed anyway.
Completely agree! Non reactive dogs would very likely react in this situation and for good reason.

CONGRATULATIONS ELLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT NEWS!!
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