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  #41  
Old 08-15-2008, 02:37 PM
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The logic behind it isn't really that of flooding. You don't cross the threshold enough to truly flood the dog.

The reasoning for CAT is that the dog wants the stimuli to go away. Previously aggression has worked to that end. Here, we present the stimulus at the point where the dog will aggress and we wait. When the aggression doesn't serve to make the stimulus leave, the dog should begin to offer something else. We want that something else, and as soon as it's offered we reward the dog by removing the stimulus.

It absolutely is negative reinforcement. But also if the dog aggressed and the stimulus went away, the dog has been negatively reinforced for aggression. That's one of the ways aggression escalates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning
Quote:
Exposure therapies

Exposure therapy involves systematically exposing individuals to a feared object or situation until the fear has been extinguished. Generally the therapy will involve the construction of a fear hierarchy of events that gradually escalate from least anxiety-evoking, to most anxiety evoking. Through the process of systematic exposure, the anxiety felt is lessened or eliminated. Various forms of exposure therapy has been shown to be effective for a variety of psychological diagnoses, including Specific Phobia, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Systematic desensitization involves the utilization of exposure therapy, paired with relaxation techniques, such as diaphragmatic breathing.[citation needed]

Flooding similarly exposes the patient to a feared object or situation, but involves no hierarchy. Instead, the patient is exposed to their worst possible fear (within realistic safety limitations) and prevented from escaping the situation until the fear is eliminated. Evidence suggests that flooding is not the most effective form of exposure therapy.
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  #42  
Old 08-15-2008, 02:40 PM
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er...but the dog isn't aggressing when the stimulus goes away. The dog goes into calm behavior. THEN the unwanted stimulus goes away.

Or did I not understand? I could have missed it, seriously, my mind starts spinning when I start thinking/talking about behaviors and stuff of that nature.
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  #43  
Old 08-15-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbecca View Post
er...but the dog isn't aggressing when the stimulus goes away. The dog goes into calm behavior. THEN the unwanted stimulus goes away.

Or did I not understand? I could have missed it, seriously, my mind starts spinning when I start thinking/talking about behaviors and stuff of that nature.
I might not have phrased it well. When I mention the stimulus going away when the dog aggresses, I'm talking about pre-CAT.
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  #44  
Old 08-15-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
I might not have phrased it well. When I mention the stimulus going away when the dog aggresses, I'm talking about pre-CAT.
OH!
I should have figured!
Sorry!
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  #45  
Old 08-15-2008, 03:09 PM
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The greatest chance of flooding with CAT occurs when the stimuli see's no reaction so inches closer to meet threshold and the dog goes off the charts (and this DOES happen no matter how experienced you are with CAT).

The reason that even Jesus calls this method a form of flooding is that when that often unexpected outburst happens, you CAN NOT retreat at that point and must stay in place until an alternative behaviour/signal is offered. If you then turn to retreat for your 15 seconds and again the dog reacts as you start to move away, you MUST return to that position and hold until another signal is offered. I've seen cases where this can take 3 or 4 attempts at leaving...thus flooding has occured.

My feeling is that as this is usually not the method chose for dogs with timidity issues, this level of flooding can be beneficial in allowing the dog to create a different way of controlling his environment, unlike flooding where all control is taken away.

Does that make sense at all??
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  #46  
Old 08-15-2008, 03:24 PM
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I will be very interested to see how this plays out. I have read about it, learned about it in class, but have never had to use it as none of my clients have been so out of control DA. Can you get someone to video tape??
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  #47  
Old 08-15-2008, 03:27 PM
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er...probably not this time, Sis.
I might get some pictures, though.

Actually, if I can contact my trainer to see what she says about videotaping our first session, I might see if Ben's dad has a video camera.
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  #48  
Old 08-15-2008, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbecca View Post
er...probably not this time, Sis.
I might get some pictures, though.

Actually, if I can contact my trainer to see what she says about videotaping our first session, I might see if Ben's dad has a video camera.
I have a tendency to video tape all of our training sessions for many different reasons: but I especially love to use it if we're using a new technique that we haven't tried before, or that's new to the dog, or whatever. This way we can all go back and watch it and see it from a different perspective.

So not necessarily something to post up online for those of us who are nosey enough to want to see it (<-----me), but at least so you and your trainer can sit down and watch it and analyze what happened.
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  #49  
Old 08-15-2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SisMorphine View Post
I will be very interested to see how this plays out. I have read about it, learned about it in class, but have never had to use it as none of my clients have been so out of control DA. Can you get someone to video tape??
I record all of my private training sessions and provide a disk to the owners so they have everything that we did to play back for reference. I'll see if I can get permission to put a snippit on youtube to show what a cycle looks like.
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  #50  
Old 08-15-2008, 04:50 PM
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oooh!
that would be awesome!


Well, as it turns out, I don't have a video camera that will upload to the computer.
I have my point and shoot which will do about a minute of taping, but that's it.
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