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Old 08-12-2008, 07:44 PM
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Maxy24 Maxy24 is offline
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Default CGC Training

So I'm thinking about getting phoebe her CGC, she's not my dog so can I still handle her? Phoebe will be in for a LOT of work though so I'm going to make this thread to write out our progress and to ask for help/suggestions along the way. As of now with a little training she could pass test 1, 6, 7 and 10 (she would need to learn a few things but they would be easy). number 4, 5 and 8 will take a bit more work (she'll need to learn to heel and to sit and wait when I stop in the presence of another dog). number 2, 3 and 9 she would fail miserably and will take quite some time to fix. (I'm going by this: http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/training_testing.cfm).

So I'm going to basically work through them going in order, the first thing I am going to teach her is to sit when I come to a stop so that when I stop to talk to the person she does not "break position" then I'll actually add a person to help me.

I also read that the dog fails if she goes to the bathroom during the test. Is the test outside? I don't know how I could prevent Phoebe from going to the bathroom, then again she does not know "heel" so perhaps having her in a constant heel while walking will prevent her from going potty, what do you think?

Assuming her owners both work tomorrow I will get started and tell you how it goes. They don't mention that harnesses are allowed so should i assume it must be a collar?
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:22 PM
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You can handle the dog even if you aren't the owner. My friend has tested dogs she has in for rescue and long-term boarding/training.

The dog doesn't have to heel, they just need to walk nicely on leash. Meg certainly doesn't heel and she got her CGC.

Some tests are indoors, some are outdoors.

The greeting with another dog is usually really quick (at least the three tests I've watched). Not even really a stop, just a handshake as you walk by.

You should try and find one to go watch. I was far less stressed about doing it after watching a test.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:29 PM
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When I passed my 4 all had basic obedience so the meet and greet was easy . Mine were used to walk on a heal and would sit when I stopped . Also they were used to the stand for examining . Really , it's an easy test if you've done the basics..... which I feel all dogs should have .
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
Assuming her owners both work tomorrow I will get started and tell you how it goes. They don't mention that harnesses are allowed so should i assume it must be a collar?
Harnesses are not allowed ~
Quote:
All tests must be performed on leash. Dogs should wear well-fitting buckle or slip collars (including martingales) made of leather, fabric, or chain. Special training equipment such as harnesses, pinch collars and head collars are not permitted. The leash should be made of either leather or fabric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
I also read that the dog fails if she goes to the bathroom during the test. Is the test outside? I don't know how I could prevent Phoebe from going to the bathroom, then again she does not know "heel" so perhaps having her in a constant heel while walking will prevent her from going potty, what do you think?
Not necessarily. She would not fail if she potties between exercises if the test is outdoors. (Although a lot of evaluators disagree with that part of the rules. I don't know if it'll be changed.) ~
Quote:
Any dog that eliminates during testing should not pass the test. The only exceptions to this are that elimination is allowed between exercises (e.g., the dog urinates on a bush as he is being walked to the next test station) and in Test 10 when the test is held outdoors.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:59 PM
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As far as the heeling goes, since she's not my dog i really want the behavior I use to be on command so perhaps I'll do some sort of informal heel, I'll be using clicker training. At her house there is no training so they will not make sure she walks nice on the leash, at her house there is just yelling and hitting, although now that she is not a puppy there is less hitting, when Uncle gets angry she usually rolls over and my uncle drags her out of the way by her collar. She is starting to learn I will not hurt her, but if I get frustrated she rolls and i feel like cr*p for making her feel like she thinks I'm gonna hit her. This is where most of her issues with the test are. If you (stranger) reach over her head she sometimes growls and has snapped, if someone she knows does she puts her head back to stare at your arms and try to stop you. I'm assuming this is from being dragged by her collar, although it could just be her temperament.

The distraction test will most certainly be hard. She is afraid of loud noises. When uncle yells she begins pacing, shaking and panting, her reaction is the same to thunder. If you drop something that makes a loud noise she begins panting and will not approach, if you encourage her to do so she runs away. I did try to help her with this a few months ago and I found we will be able to work with it without too much trouble, it will just take a long time. I dropped a book and treated her a few times. Then i dropped it and treated for her looking at it then I dropped and held it out to her hoping she would move towards it and she took off so instead I used the two commands she knew, target and touch, to make her touch the book with her paw and her nose after I dropped it, that worked quite well. So I think we will be able to do it.

She gets stressed during grooming and that sort of thing. She is long haired so when it's wet out uncle has to clean her off, he does not take no for an answer so if she resists she is grabbed by collar or scruff and forced down so he can wipe her of, he does not even praise for compliance. She has had multiple ear infections that he gives her drops for so again she is grabbed, punished for resisting and otherwise taught that handling is stressful and unpleasant. She goes to a professional groomer so it's not like they have time to train her to accept the grooming, they have to groom her so assume there is a fair level of force there as well. hopefully I can teach her that only those people do these things and that in my presence handling is always good.


Venting now, feel free to skip this paragraph:
It's sick knowing what he does to Phoebe, my aunt had potential to be good to her but uncle trained her too. I remember as a puppy when she would have an accident and uncle would ask my aunt if she punished her he would yell at her that she will never stop if she does not punish her. When she said she did she would always act so proud of herself for doing it because sh made uncle proud. when my aunt wants phoebe to come inside it's always "Phoebe get OVER here right now!!" first off the dog does not know what the he!! that means and second i would not come anywhere near you if you were talking like that. it's like they feel if the command her pleasantly she won't listen, they have to scare her into it. My aunt was here and Willie started scratching the couch, she started screaming at him, mom's like "what's wrong?" and then gave the shameful "Willlieeee" voice and I walked out squeaked to interrupt him, he stopped and I plopped him down off the couch. My aunt said I needed to spank him and I told her I will never hit my pet in a very PO'd voice and she shut up, I picked up Willie, gave him a big kiss and carried him off. The time Phoebe started to run away but sat at the end of the lawn (we walk by there everyday, it's her potty spot when she is with me, I don't let her off the lawn and on the side walk and I have a feeling that is why she did not leave but I'm sure she would have if she saw something) uncle yelled "Phoebe get over here!!!!" and she simply rolled onto her back because she knew by his voice she was in for a beating, she did not come, he did not say come, he thinks they speak English I swear. Her reward for rolling over was not getting beat, woopty doo.

At the same token, during thunder storms they baby the heck out of her. When they hear the first rumble it's always "oooohhhh phoebe did you hear the thunder?" then when she leaps into their arms she starts with the "oh phoebe it's just thunder, it's ok, I know" stuff. *sigh*

Vent over.

So you see I have a lot of history to work against. now that she is older there is indeed less punishment. Do you think it's even worth it to bother? do you think she will be able to understand that only a select few people hurt her and that it never happens with me, or is it a lost cause? Sorry about whining, sometimes I need someone to talk to since mom jumps to his defense, after all it's just a dog and thy need to have punishment etc. at least people here know something about dogs and agree with me.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:12 PM
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I totally think it's worth it, and many kudos to you for working with her. It will be difficult to get a CGC if she won't trust a friendly stranger touching her. Don't beat yourself up over it, just keep working on what you are doing.

I absolutely believe that dogs learn who they can be safe with and who they aren't. It'll be good for her to know there is someone she can trust.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:25 PM
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OMG, Maxy, I can only imagine how much it's KILLING you knowing how your aunt and uncle treat their dog. I'm so sorry.

My professional opinion is that I don't know how far you'll get as far as CGC trainng, you're definately working against a lot of baggage in the dog. But, as I'm sure you know, you pretty much HAVE to try, if for nothing else than to just try to give this dog a bright spot in a dreary day. But, at the same time, try to be realistic in your expectations for her - because you don't have a whole lot of control over her training, setting high expectations for yourself will only cause frustration and, basically, burnout.

Good luck! And definately do keep us posted!
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