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  #31  
Old 08-04-2008, 07:35 AM
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I'm friends with a few cops. One is a SWAT team member. All of them are people of integrity. Nothing pisses them off more than hearing about stuff like this happening. My SWAT buddy told me how they try not to hurt people during raids. One time they responded to a domestic with a weapon situation. They heard screaming from inside, busted open the door, and the guy met them with a butcher knife and started coming after them. They tased him. He said 5 years ago, that guy would have been shot on the spot due to his actions and the weapon he had.

The town next to ours has a reputation of overzealous cops. They think they are in the wild wild west with their tactics. It's at the point where certain judges won't even hear their cases because charges are trumped up and unjustified. They'll bust people who had nothing to do with crimes but happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to pad their arrest numbers and ruin the lives of those people who now have to hire lawyers to fight the charges. There is one in particular who I'd love to catch in a dark parking lot off duty just once.
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  #32  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:44 AM
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The city cops have gotten so bad here that the EMTs don't even want anything to do with them . . . and you used to always see them hanging out together.
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  #33  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DanL View Post
I'm friends with a few cops. One is a SWAT team member. All of them are people of integrity. Nothing pisses them off more than hearing about stuff like this happening. My SWAT buddy told me how they try not to hurt people during raids. One time they responded to a domestic with a weapon situation. They heard screaming from inside, busted open the door, and the guy met them with a butcher knife and started coming after them. They tased him. He said 5 years ago, that guy would have been shot on the spot due to his actions and the weapon he had.

The town next to ours has a reputation of overzealous cops. They think they are in the wild wild west with their tactics. It's at the point where certain judges won't even hear their cases because charges are trumped up and unjustified. They'll bust people who had nothing to do with crimes but happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to pad their arrest numbers and ruin the lives of those people who now have to hire lawyers to fight the charges. There is one in particular who I'd love to catch in a dark parking lot off duty just once.
I have no doubt that most police officers, and most SWAT team members, are responsible, professional individuals. Nor do I expect that we will ever be without bad apples in the profession: the temptation for those who legally carry weapons and constantly see the worst of people to behave badly will always be there.

What really cheeses me off is not that these incidents happened, but the lack of accountability and the legal arrangements that allow them to happen. If there is a no knock raid on the wrong house, then there should immediately be an appology and compensation, especially if a family member or a pet is hurt or killed. None of this having to get a lawyer and spend years in court, none of this having to prove you were innocent (which, despite the Constitution, is the de facto situation. If an innocent bystander is killed, there should be a immedate and serious investigation (whether wrong house or right house). One of things Atlanta did right was welcoming an federal investigation (in fact, I think they asked the FBI in), which was a show of good faith and serious intent to deal with the problem.

Acts of causal and malicious cruelty, towards human beings or animals should be seriously punished and result in removal from this sort of operation. Shooting an elderly, crated dog is a sign of callousness that should immediately disqualify someone from being in the sort of situtation where they can exercise that sort of power. Not to speak of the Phoenix puppy-burning indicent . . .

Judges should be far more reluctant to give no-knock warrants and state and city legislatures should pass bills requring that such raids are only used when there is a genuine threat of violence (and don't give me the "all drug crimes are crimes of violence" crap) Honestly, if they flush the drugs, they flush the drugs . . . at the very least you have seriously inconvinenced them. But a few marijauana plants are not worth risking human life.

Police officers should also recieve more training in dealing with dogs, it seems, and be instructed to let family members attempt to gain control of their pets if this is reasonable. Right now, a no knock raid, wrong or right house, justified or not, is pretty much an assured death sentence for the family dog. Should the cops endanger themselves to protect the dogs? Of course not. But they should recieve more training in dealing with them in a non-lethal fashion. Indeed, as one of the stories above shows, the immedate reaction--shoot the dog--resulted in the death of an innocent woman and the maiming of her infant.

As long as law enforcement agencies shield officers who commit such acts and blame the victims, they will face public outrage (though not as much outrage as there SHOULD be) and a suspicious, wary, and often unco-operative public that has learned to be afraid of the police, even if they have nothing to hide.
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:52 AM
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Something that gripes my soul in the legal department, Lil, is that cops aren't typically penalized for their crimes as harshly as civilians. In my view of the world, they should be held to a HIGHER standard as they sought out positions of power and authority theoretically to be a voluntary shield and weapon against criminal acts.

Cops who commit crimes should at least get the maximum sentences and have to wait at least twice as long to be considered for parole. Maybe that would have at least a small impact on the number of bad ones before they even sign up for the cop classes.
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  #35  
Old 08-04-2008, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Something that gripes my soul in the legal department, Lil, is that cops aren't typically penalized for their crimes as harshly as civilians. In my view of the world, they should be held to a HIGHER standard as they sought out positions of power and authority theoretically to be a voluntary shield and weapon against criminal acts.

Cops who commit crimes should at least get the maximum sentences and have to wait at least twice as long to be considered for parole. Maybe that would have at least a small impact on the number of bad ones before they even sign up for the cop classes.
Well, it would depend on the circumstances of the crime, but I agree in principle. At the very least, the standards should be equal. One thing that irritates me in these cases is that while the officers are held to a typical "reasonable" standard of self-defense, it seems the civilians are often asked to excercise almost superhuman judgement. Worse, the cops have all the advantages.

The civilians are usually frightened, confused, and often have been woken up in the middle of the night. Especially if they are innocent, they have no reason to suspect or know that the police are charging through their door. These confused, frightened, often sleepy and muddled people are asked to make split second decisions for which they often have no training, and are punished severely if they make the wrong choice. Meanwhile, the officers, who knew perfectly well that they'd be raiding a house, and, are, at least theoretically, well-trained, are judged simply on whether they thought their actions are necessiary. Tragic situations can happen without fault. However, the tendancy is to forgive the cops (no matter how at fault) and blame the civilian (no matter how reasonable their actions would have seemed to them at the time).
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  #36  
Old 08-04-2008, 10:34 AM
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However, the tendancy is to forgive the cops (no matter how at fault) and blame the civilian (no matter how reasonable their actions would have seemed to them at the time).
I think perhaps a great deal of that comes from the fear of contemplating a reality where our so-called protectors are NOT acting in our best interests. We make excuses for their criminal lapses of judgment, cowardice and sometimes outright joy in violence because we don't want to face the idea that we've given authority and weapons to those with poor judgment, to cowards, or to psychopaths.
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Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


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  #37  
Old 08-06-2008, 11:40 AM
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Update:

http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/0...knock-warrant/
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  #38  
Old 08-07-2008, 09:58 AM
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And another update:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...8080603533&pos=

No no-knock warrant. Part of a known identy theft/drug scam. Didn't know it was the mayor (ever heard of Google . . . ?). . . . All around great work guys . . .
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The Court's extensive review of these pages serves as a useful reminder that loaded guns, sharp objects and law degrees should be kept out of the reach of children.

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  #39  
Old 08-07-2008, 10:28 AM
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And the stupidity and incompetence continues . . .
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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  #40  
Old 08-07-2008, 10:34 AM
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Such a waste of wonderful dogs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So sad !
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