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  #21  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:45 AM
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DanL DanL is offline
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Originally Posted by Caucasian View Post
PP is the most important for people who are endangered by other people or who already were endangered and that is why they feel the need of having a good protection dog.

I think that owner's job to protect his dog(s) is only valid if he has weak and companion dogs, not utility ones.

Everything depends on the purpose of your dog, which can be to have a good companion and friend as well.

I agree that the majority of people I will meet with my dog are good people, but now and then we will also meet some bad guys. And how can my dog recognize bad guys among all the good? Better is to let the dog distrust anyone. That is my opinion.
The point is, YOU should be recognizing the bad guys and directing your dog appropriately. NOT letting him make those choices for you. A proper protection dog is quiet, social, and confident and looks to his handler for direction.

Why do you feel so endangered by people? Do you act like a jerk and then when people confront you you you bring what amounts to a junk yard dog to the fight? Because that is what your dog is, a junk yard dog. A dog that doesn't trust anyone and acts on its own and thinks everyone is a threat. That's the kind of dog they use in a junkyard at night to protect their property. I think it's more of a macho thing, wanting to own what you consider a badass dog that no one will mess with. If that's your goal, you accomplished it.

Sorry, I'll take my calm, assertive, confident German Shepherd any day. I can take him anywhere and not worry about him wanting to bite anyone that comes within 10 feet of us, but if I need him to protect me, it's one word away. Or if someone attacks me, he's on them in an instant.
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:53 AM
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planet molosser planet molosser is offline
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Nope LOVE is transferable to even a top titled PP dog.

I have naturally protective - dogs that work and dogs that are tested in all areas
( legit areas).

And I LOVE them-and my instinct if someone pointed a gun would be to step in front of it.
The only choice would be one of my humans Hubby bro or the dog..

I love them and if they die protecting me that is honor but still I lose a member of my family. If it againest Bear - Cougar . No I would not be able to step up- But Good chances my dog would live since most Predators when engaged run ( exceptions sick or mamma predators).

I want a dog that is going to engage but NOT destroy anything unless no choice is left.

And I am 10x more aggressive and nasty than any of my dogs when in defense of me and my own.

I find people who get these "tough" dogs only to feel protected are lame.
If you cant step up to bat yourself without having to say hold on Bud im going back to the car to "get the dog out" you dont belong owning the dogs.

Push comes to shove my dogs are my last resort in a man to human battle.

A. They protect the property and I dont come home to a intruder.
B If I get shot which the dogs can do too they will die protecting me.
C. They give me enough warning to get the Shot gun out to blow you head off.
D They protect me againest 4 legged predators that carry disease.

NO use bringing a dog to a gun battle as useless as a knife- unless you just want the dog killed. ( again exceptions are top police trained dogs and they die too)
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2008, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caucasian View Post
PP is the most important for people who are endangered by other people or who already were endangered and that is why they feel the need of having a good protection dog.

I think that owner's job to protect his dog(s) is only valid if he has weak and companion dogs, not utility ones.
It might surprise you but it has nothing to do with strength vs weakness. Yes my JRTs are small BUT they have all the drive to protect. I have to work to keep them friendly and outgoing. Even if I had a GSD or dobe I would do the same.

And *shock* there are many utility dogs that CANNOT be ticking time bombs. Take therapy dogs, seeing eye dogs, alert dogs, assitance dogs etc..
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2008, 11:07 AM
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The most important training for any dog is basic socialization and exposure too all things,

Even for naturally defensive breeds it is MORE important .

Any dog can BITE- any dog can protect which is what leads to BSL.

Only few dogs can be social and be able to be in a setting in public that requires good judgment- and if the need arizes PROTECT.

No use if you need to muzzle your dog in public, or cant approuch people or dogs or have to lock the dog up cause the bell rang.

Unless it is a real threat coming strait for me they better look to me for direction.
IF I am relaxed using happy voice no matter how stupid that person is acting I am telling the dog its ok- their bells may go off thru natural instincts- But is is the social repetitive work that makes the most important training in a protection dog.

Getting a naturally protective dog to protect is easy - getting one to be stable is darn hard because most go to protection and bypass all the needed ground work.
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet molosser View Post
NO use bringing a dog to a gun battle as useless as a knife- unless you just want the dog killed. ( again exceptions are top police trained dogs and they die too)
Most of the police k9 handlers I know won't bring the dog out if they know there are guns involved.
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
I think that owner's job to protect his dog(s) is only valid if he has weak and companion dogs, not utility ones.
Whoops, I was going to respond but my dogs are just 'weak companions'. Well, I guess a few of mine are 'weak utility' dogs. They're therapy dogs, show dogs and we're working on sports training...

Quote:
I agree that the majority of people I will meet with my dog are good people, but now and then we will also meet some bad guys. And how can my dog recognize bad guys among all the good? Better is to let the dog distrust anyone. That is my opinion.
That is scary.

I don't care what you say but socialization and a good stay/recall are the MOST important things for any dog protection trained or not. What good is a dog that attacks things randomly? That dog is not a trained protection dog that dog is just a catalyst that will encourage BSL and confirm people's fears about these breeds.

I'd hate to run into your 'protection dogs'. They sound unstable and like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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  #27  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet molosser View Post
The most important training for any dog is basic socialization and exposure too all things,

Even for naturally defensive breeds it is MORE important .

Any dog can BITE- any dog can protect which is what leads to BSL.

Only few dogs can be social and be able to be in a setting in public that requires good judgment- and if the need arizes PROTECT.


No use if you need to muzzle your dog in public, or cant approuch people or dogs or have to lock the dog up cause the bell rang.

Unless it is a real threat coming strait for me they better look to me for direction.
IF I am relaxed using happy voice no matter how stupid that person is acting I am telling the dog its ok- their bells may go off thru natural instincts- But is is the social repetitive work that makes the most important training in a protection dog.

Getting a naturally protective dog to protect is easy - getting one to be stable is darn hard because most go to protection and bypass all the needed ground work.
Totally bears repeating!
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  #28  
Old 07-30-2008, 08:17 PM
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Dogs that you described are a HUGE liability and a danger to themselves. I have one dog who is VERY nervy, to the point where he cant even go out because he is so stressed, thinks everyone is a threat will bite any dogs people and even kids (which is a HUGE issue, children) if he feels he is threatened. Yeah he makes himself look tough and badass but that response is purely based on fear. He would NOT be my choice of dog to protect me. A dog living in constant fear and distrust leads a very stressful life and DO NOT have the mental capability to protect, only defend themselves. IMO.....
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  #29  
Old 07-30-2008, 09:11 PM
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This makes me so angry. A dog like you are describing is the kind of dog that jumps it's fence to kill innocent joggers and children riding bikes. That is NOT a protection dog. That is a danger to all human kind, and ought to be euthanized!

A dog like you describe could not be taken ANYWHERE in public. All you have is a prisoner. If you take it somewhere it has to be muzzled. How can it "protect" you if it's muzzled? And how do you keep it from biting/killing an innocent person if it is not muzzled?

A REAL protection dog is socialized, so that it KNOWS what is normal human behavior, and KNOWS what is NOT. A well socialized dog makes the best protection dog, because they know the difference. You are the one in control of them so if they do make a mistake, they will listen to your instruction and back off.

Just look at the police dogs out there. They aren't out of control and angry at every person they see. They are well socialized enough that a random stranger could walk up and touch the dog, but brave enough to take a suspect down when they are asked to.
*end rant*

ETA:

If you are encouraging dogs to be scared of all people, he might just end up being the worst protection dog ever when the $^*t hits the fan. Like has been mentioned before, he might take a couple of cheap shots but if someone really serious tried to do him or you some harm there's a good chance he'd be hiding under your bed. You know why? Because you trained him to FEAR people.
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  #30  
Old 07-30-2008, 11:00 PM
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well, protection training just isn't my cup of tea. neither is posting on forums to get people to visit my website.
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