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  #11  
Old 07-14-2008, 03:54 PM
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Well I didn't read all posts here, but when/if I breed I breed for myself only. I won't have another litter for minimum 3 more years. I have my sights set on buying a bitch from a litter that will be bred 1-2 yrs from now. IF something turns out from that litter I will take it, show it, title it, work with it, train it, test it, THEN breed a litter.

I can guarantee I won't have a waiting list. I will keep one puppy to continue on with the next generation. If I have to place an ad in a newspaper with the hopes of landing a nice home, I will. I am also prepared to hold on to any pups I can't place.

I don't see anything wrong with this. I screen my buyers very carefully. I keep in contact with them and enforce the contract that they sign.
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  #12  
Old 07-14-2008, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OutlineACDs View Post
Well I didn't read all posts here, but when/if I breed I breed for myself only. I won't have another litter for minimum 3 more years. I have my sights set on buying a bitch from a litter that will be bred 1-2 yrs from now. IF something turns out from that litter I will take it, show it, title it, work with it, train it, test it, THEN breed a litter.

I can guarantee I won't have a waiting list. I will keep one puppy to continue on with the next generation. If I have to place an ad in a newspaper with the hopes of landing a nice home, I will. I am also prepared to hold on to any pups I can't place.

I don't see anything wrong with this. I screen my buyers very carefully. I keep in contact with them and enforce the contract that they sign.
I can lay odds that if you do all that you say you will have a waiting list.
People will want one of your dogs- Co handlers others in your breed will fancy your dog and your dedication.
It will be your choice to pick and choose whom you dont want to sell too..Hell I want one based on what you wrote and i dont know what you breed. Anyone would want a pup from that level of education you would get by doing all you plan.

It is nice to be the exception to the rule.
Maybe one day breeders such as yourself can change the rules.

Fact is most breeders in papers are not good breeders.
And the only way we can change that is to educate buyers what to look for in a breeder.
However All wanting a dog for a PET should visit the shelters first.
Thats where many of the classified add pups wind up when not bred by good breeders. And putting money in backyard breeders pockets only helps them breed more.

Remember this thread and the other is NOT about you me or HBH it is about bad breeders and the topic of hand that most bad breeders are advertised in newspapers.
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2008, 04:38 PM
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MOST ads in the paper are from BYB's/mills, people looking to make a quick buck. I will agree with that.. In my area I never see OFA,CERF, Ch. parents advertised. I see "Ch. Bloodlines" which doesn't mean crap. I also agree that people looking in the paper for puppies probably aren't your upper echelon (sp?) puppy buyers. That doesn't mean they don't mean well. Honestly, before I started showing, I knew jack about where to find a good dog. My parents had goldens my entire life and they all came from newspaper ads. I had a mix breed who came from a 'humane society' ad. I just plain didn't know where else to find a puppy.

When you are new/uneducated it can be hard to actually go to a show and get a puppy from a nice breeder. Some breeders don't look at, "Hey, its a step in the right direction, they came to a show to look for a dog." They just think.. "Well you want it, and you want it now, sorry." I don't know if we will ever change the way humans shop. They shop for shoes and puppies the same way. It's a blessing and a curse. The "dog as a product" mentality keeps the AR's from having complete control. When JQ. Public starts seeing a dog as a lifetime commitment we may lose our foothold against groups like PETA. I don't know if I'm right, or even if someone can be right or wrong in this argument.

I just hate to see ALL breeders looked down upon because they might/might not chose to advertise.
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2008, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by planet molosser View Post
I can lay odds that if you do all that you say you will have a waiting list.
People will want one of your dogs- Co handlers others in your breed will fancy your dog and your dedication.
It will be your choice to pick and choose whom you dont want to sell too..Hell I want one based on what you wrote and i dont know what you breed. Anyone would want a pup from that level of education you would get by doing all you plan.
I say that about the waiting list because that's what happened with my last litter. My bitch is Ch. titled, had a couple performance titles as well. She took a group 1 at 8 months old, she finished with back to back group placements. She was health tested out the wazoo. Sire was the same. Ch. and has a CD and had produced Ch. offspring.

After everything was said and done she whelped 4 pups by c-section. I kept one, the stud dog owner took a puppy back from the stud fee, and she sold one of the other ones for me. I had the last puppy for 4 months, at my local show I got lucky and someone met him and fell in love. She had owned the breed before and was incredibly nice and passed my home check/references check. I DID place a newspaper ad for the puppy, but no one who called was really up to par. One guy was, but he didn't want to pay what I was asking for a dog he could get for $75 from a different ad. Not the home I'd want anyway. I got incredibly lucky. I was so thankful to have the help of the stud dog owner or else I feel I would still have the two other males.
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:31 PM
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Wow great to hear that stud owners stepping up to plate.
I sold all the pups for the one time I studded out.
And I kept in touch with them thru the years.

Either way you write with such honesty and hope.
It is nice to read.

I really do believe good breeders can advertise I am be one one day who knows.
But I just wish the newspaper had list of qualifications for litters.
Health , _ work or show or they are listed as buyers beware type deal.

I even found one with a dog figthing title in it .
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:54 PM
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Guess it depends on how cheap someone is...most ad's cost by the word and people may think that "Hey, if they are interested they'll call me to ask about the health checks etc" - it has been well mentioned that a responsible breeder isn't going to make money on a litter, so cutting additional words out of an advertisement may keep them in the black or gray area instead of red.
Just my thought on it. The bitch I bought (Lily) wasn't advertised in a newspaper...they did have an "ad" stuck to their front fence (cheaper than a newspaper ad) and though I was in the market I already had the idea they weren't the kind of people I'd want to buy from - but I was pleasantly surprised.
Mom and dad aren't conformation titled (that was ok by me, I was looking for a working prospect) but were used in weight pulls etc. Mom and dad were tested for hips and heart issues, came up clear. Pups were raised in the house around small children, definitely a plus for me since I have young children.
By the time I got around to calling them they actually didn't have any pups left. They did call me back because someone had returned Lily for whatever reason, I didn't ask but couldn't imagine it was anything really serious for a 12 week old pup.
Are they 100% ethical? By a lot of standards, no, since they don't conformation title. But were my main concerns covered, yes they were with the health testing and seeing their home,etc.

Another thing about newspaper ads that can be misleading. John Q Public for the most part is not up on health certs etc. So why waste the money with all the titles and cert's for someone who doesn't know any better? Most people are looking for a pet puppy, those looking for a show quality are likely to already know someone who raises their breed and they'll go there or to someone that breeder knows, instead of looking in the paper.

I hope this made sense...lol
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:59 PM
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To me if they have to advertise they are bad breeders !!! I feel the same way about on line selling .
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  #18  
Old 07-15-2008, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbatd View Post
To me if they have to advertise they are bad breeders !!! I feel the same way about on line selling .
So.. say if our Red bred Penny again and she advertised... would she be a bad breeder? Automatically? Sorry Grammy, I'm not buying it.
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  #19  
Old 07-15-2008, 04:07 AM
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I support breeders that advertise a LOT.

Your average dog owner doesn't want to ring breed clubs, get phone numbers, go to dog shows etc. They want to flip through the paper or check out things online or go to the pet shop.
If we hide our good breeders, no-one will find them. They will remain wiht their "elitest" status that so many view them with.

If you are looking for a dog, and stumble onto a registered breeders site, contact them and get a dog. Then that is a great thing. We have alway been good dog owners but we also always used to go throgh a pet shop or paper, I didn't even know another option existed.

If someone is looking through a paper and see's "Labradoodle puppies, both parents very cute and nice, view mother, m&f, $1200" right next to "Labrador puppies, well socialised, view both parents, vacinated, microchipped, registered, lifetime breeder support, parents genetically health tested, $800"

Good owners look in papers aswell, we need to educate and not everyone is going to go looking for the information. Ideally, the breeder will have a waiting list, but there is nothing wrong in educating the public with an ad.

If they screen homes just the same, why is it a bad thing?
Its vitally important we get the public to look at registered breeders and not see "expenisive show dogs, snobby breeders" we need them to see registered breeders at the better option.
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2008, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by noludoru View Post
So.. say if our Red bred Penny again and she advertised... would she be a bad breeder? Automatically? Sorry Grammy, I'm not buying it.
Very true. What matters whether you advertise in a breeders showcase in a dog magazine, are listed as a breeder by your club on their website, or you advert in the newspaper.

Its how you pick the buyers.... not where they came from. A good home is a good home it doesn't matter how they find you.

And I think the fact that the general public does not know how to find good breeders is a good point. If all they see are ads by byb then that is why they go that route. Why make it hard for them to find good breeders? Why make it hard for them to bet breed information?
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