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Old 07-14-2008, 11:57 AM
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Unhappy Are Newspaper add haven for good breeders?

Buffalo adds Sunday July 13 Guardian-Working dogs

1. One Akita Akc reg 500.00 each or Best Offer.
No answer

2. Boxer pups 500.00
Okay No screening for HD, No titles, Contential Kennel Club reg.
Askes about temperment " we are not breeding for killers"
"just dogs that bark and are pets"

3. Boxer pups CKC and AKC 2 litters 550.00
machine will call back later

4. Boxer male AKC white blue eyed hearing ok
wont even bother calling this one

5. Boxer X Cocker mix pups $300 each
no answer lets hope this was a accident.

6. Boxers rare AKC also chinese crested
No answer think this is something I need to do at nite.

Breeds listed in the grp above Dobes, Corso, english bulldog,english mastiff,
saint bernard.

plus tons of noodles and pits and a few pet stores.

I hope I cant find ONE good breeder.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:02 PM
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ha·ven Audio Help /***712;he***618;v***601;n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hey-vuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a harbor or port.
2. any place of shelter and safety; refuge; asylum.

Haven? LOL...nope.
Option? Yep.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:12 PM
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Inspired by this thread which was "bad breeders"
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80306

Options 1. Breed only when you have BUYERS who want your pups.
Good breeders have a waiting list for pups before breeding.
Then they have a contact list for future pups.
Then they have previous buyers who they can also contact.
They may want another or have a family member who is so thrilled with the previous dog they want a woman like "mike and jane have"
Good breeders have the room and money and time to HOLD on to pups that are NOT sold at time of breeding. TO make a match.

Options 2 Have 4 buyers and female does a whammy and has 15 pups a fluke.
Take out a local add so u can place them, go to homes and screen buyers and take them back if need comes. Boomerangs are a given for any breeder good or bad.

Fact is majority rules , cause once in a while a backyard breeder breeds something that can take that breed by storm. NOt the NORM but as the 60's said **** HAPPENS.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:16 PM
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From this link since I am one human maybe my thinking is the odd vs the norm?

There are so many ads in the newspaper - which of those are good breeders?

Very few good breeders advertise in the newspaper because they get more than enough referrals from other good breeders, Specialty and All-Breed Clubs. They produce puppies with good health, good temperament, and good conformation, and there is often a waiting list for their pups.

Look at several ads in the newspaper and most all of them will be careless breeders who know little about this wonderful Breed. They simply decided to breed their pet, found a male and produced cute puppies. These people don't do research, so they simply don't know the incidence of kidney disease, Leggs Perthes, Liver Shunt, SA, bad temperament or epilepsy in their lines. They "think" the parents are "perfect" without knowing anything about structure or soundness. When you buy from these people, you are essentially buying generic little dogs with unknown genes. Their AKC registration papers say Yorkshire Terrier only because the AKC churns registration papers out of a computer that couldn't care less about structure, health, or temperament.

http://www.orlanelhasa.org/breeder.htm
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:18 PM
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Bringing up magazines.

What about the newspaper? The newspaper is not a good source. That doesn't mean there is never a responsible breeder advertising in the newspaper. Your chances of finding one there, however, are very small. The sad fact is that if you have done your homework you will know far more about breeding healthy dogs that 99 percent of the people advertising in newspapers.

You can use newspaper listings to polish your interviewing and question asking skills. Be warned, however, that some people will become hostile when you ask them questions, especially about health and temperament. Mostly they get hostile because they don't really understand and they think you are accusing them of being a bad person. If you can stand the possible hostility you will certainly gain an education, and you might end up educating others. Not a bad thing.

Oh, and some of the worst breeders are advertisers in the dog magazines. There may be good breeders too, but flashy does not equal good, and neither do large numbers. Pay attention to what they DO, not how grand they sound. Be skeptical. They write their own praises, remember that.
http://www.dogplay.com/GettingDog/where.html#classified
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:23 PM
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*mafia the identity thief*

Thread is old but I thought it was pretty good. Advertising isn't as black and white as many people want to make it out to be.

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62787
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:33 PM
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Thanks for the link, I hope I dont duplicate any posts..

Black and white mixed produces gray.
Gray areas do exist in all aspects of life.

However odds is how life rules.
I dont buy cars that rate bad in magazines because I dont wont to play the odds with my life.

The odds just go up by buying from a good breeder, who may advertise in a paper.
But the odds are finding a good breeder in the paper is less than 5%.

Many like to gamble I dont... Even thou I breed I prefer All go to pounds for the diamonds in the rough. And if more did NOT buy from papers maybe the backyard breeders would not breed as often when they get stuck with pups that cost money to feed.

I guess I wish for a better world vs accepting the policys we have now.

PS I had a litter not expected ,bitch could NOT get pregnant again. figured it out on her own.
Had only 3 buyers waiting and 8 pups I too called the paper to find out how much a add was. As soon as I sent a email to the list of interested buyers they were all gone.
And I would have no problem If I placed a add from proven parents and someone went after me for placing it. Once I list the proven ness of the parents they cant say much.

And I would not need to defend myself cause the history of any breeders breeding is well documentated thus actions speak much louder than words.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:47 PM
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I know that good breeders don't need to as a general rule (but I question the waiting list thing to a certain extent)*- but I sure wish the breed ad all-breed clubs in any given area would run them with the listing for their breeder referral line. It's RIDICULOUSLY difficult to find some kennel and all-breed clubs, some of which don't even MAINTAIN a breeder referral list, or bother to return phone calls.

John Q Public isn't going to stop buying puppies from BYBs until we manage to make it a little bit easier for them to FIND the good breeders. The internet is a huge help IF we can help them find the good stuff more easily than the bad.

*the waiting list thing - okay, a good breeder ALWAYS matches puppy to prospective owner for temperament and potential, right? So exactly how big of a waiting list do you need to make sure you have just the right potential owner on hand for every possible combination of pup, temperament, sex (and throw variety in there if you've got that too, especially if it's a significant difference- rough vs smooth coat in collies or something similar, not just a matter of an inch or two). I agree that any good breeder will always have SOME waiting list, but I know more that seem to have about half their litters spoken for ahead of time. It does vary, of course- I've already got 5 people waiting on Lizzie's first litter.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:58 PM
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What I found on the Link Dekka posted was good and it slipped my mind.

Magazines vs Newspapers.
The Pros of using local papers vs national mags.
Is you can visit the prospect buyer and see your pup grow and god for bid take it back.
Where the big magazines that have many ethical breeders and bad ones as well.
Forces you to sell AWAY from you which is a con..

So If I needed to or had a choice I prefer to sell local. However what I bred for is not found locally. Guardian dogs or predators are not in much more need in NY.

So yes it is not black or white not all breeders in papers are bad or backyard.
Same applies to magazines since the BIG adds cost thousands and unless they are rich as in wealthy before they bred - to afford those adds puts them at min in the commercial breeder area.

I take out the Dogs USA breeder listing to educate and keep a presence.
I dont take it to sell pups I do it annoy bad breeders that if they go down teh list and find a breeder who does work show and xray that the breeder who said the dogs are
naturally healthy and need no screening may be a wrong.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:03 PM
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Waiting list? I try to balance it between males and females, LGD vs pet, and a few pick dogs for possible breeding -me getting pick first. I only take one pick of the litter dep male, one alpha male and or female to expert owners, 1-2 lgd and the rest are pets and I have to match up the temp with the situation. By testing the pups first.

I dont breed unless I have 4 deps plus add 2 I may keep that normally leaves 2-3 I need to send out emails for . Ss soon as they are posted I get the calls and start interviewing.
Next litter Im sold out, and may need to do another breeding to breed the last of a older dog and the first of a younger dog. But Im breeding that to get my 4th generation not to produce pets and if I have a huge litter I simply wont have time to do too many shows and will work on training and placing the pups that did not make the cut for breeding.
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