No Milk. Puppies still Nursing fine?

[Chaos Theory]

Hello! Wow I haven't been here in a month of sundays. Never forgot the place though. Best forums ever and I was helped out a year ago with a new female dog that I was worried I'd have to get rid of.

but you guys saved us!

well since that time she has had her first litter

I have 4 beautiful shih tzu puppies that were born on June 28th. 3 girls 1 boy. They have doubled in size and have been doing really well. Me and my wife checked for milk from the dam daily and she was producing milk until yesterday morning she seems to have stopped producing. We made a visit to our vet and he lead us in the right direction I believe. We are trying to start them on formula which they are not fully getting the hang of yet. It's difficult for us too. the hole for the bottle is tough to get just right and I'm so affraid their not able to get a good suction from it and that I'm nervous about squeezing the bottle to draw milk, since it seems I have to use some pressure to get it going. not wanting to drown them. We also are starting to feed the mom higher quality canned/trayed dog food and making sure shes getting her water and EVmilk/yoguart mixture so I'm hoping this will help. my question is:


The puppies are still trying to nurse from the dam and I'm wondering if their able to get anything because they seem fine in doing so even though we are doing the squeeze test on the nipples and seeing no signs of milk. The puppies don't cry or pull away from nipples. they look like their nursing normally. They nurse for the same amount of time and then fall back and sleep. I check for milk from the nipples and still nothing. Is it possible for their still to be milk even though I've done the squeeze test?

another question is if we have to go full time with bottle feeding. what's a good kind of bottle to use? the ones I was able to pick up from walmart in a frantic search are so small! from the direction on the powder formula it will take 2 bottles for each 11 oz puppy. also any tips on making the holes just right? I'm using a thumb tack and have just percied the top several times to make it drop out better.

sorry for the long post and thank you for your time and any help.

[ihartgonzo]

Oh, dear.

Well... to start off... maybe it wasn't a fantastic idea to breed your 1 year old bitch? Just maybe. =( Maybe you should've seeked some breeding advice, as well, before all of this.

I have never whelped a litter, so I really have no advice as far as bottle-feeding. If she is producing milk, wouldn't you be able to see it in/around the puppy's mouths, were they getting any? I would continue with the bottle-feeding as per your Vet's recommendations, and ask him about problems with the holes in them.

[Chaos Theory]

Originally Posted by ihartgonzo

Oh, dear.

Well... to start off... maybe it wasn't a fantastic idea to breed your 1 year old bitch? Just maybe. =( Maybe you should've seeked some breeding advice, as well, before all of this.

I didn't give a complete background because I figured if I would have come this far to make a post on this forum, most would probably guess I have already studied, read all I can before asking questions. this one about nursing just boggles me and I know the answer may be found here (if not by vet).

incase theres more assumptions I'll get this out of the way.

dam was born jaunary 2007. linear math = more than 1 year old.

other obvious common sense things I may be missing (just incase...)

shes got a whelping box
shes in a good enviroment
the puppies are hers
the litter was planned
the male daddy dog doesn't care one way or the other
shes not rabid
theres plenty of heat
puppies are weighed daily
shes taken outside to potty
she cleans her puppies
no crusting of nipples or discoloration
I'm using the internet for advice as well as a vet.

hmm....... the milk replacement is for puppies not kittens.


sure I missed one. point it out if I did :P



thank you

You cannot analyze whether your bitch is producing enough milk except by regular weighing of the puppies. IF the puppies have stopped gaining, or are crying because they are not sated after nursing, you need help.

ANYONE who breeds a bitch should have a plan in place, and be prepared to feed puppies BEFORE THEY ARE BORN.

Stick with your vet's advice. They will probably be able to eat gruel on their own by 3 weeks or so.

[MafiaPrincess]

She's not rabid.. there's a brilliant reason to breed..

Bother to health test bitch and dog? Bother to title either? Wait until both dogs are two.. sounds like not on all accounts. Gee she's more than one. That deserves a round of applause. You apparently didn't use the internet to research enough.

[DogstarAcademy]

Breeding at 18 months isn't unusual in a lot of toy breeds- they *do* mature somewhat earlier- and you can test patellas at a year, although I'm not seeing any mention that the OP BOTHERED.

[Zoom]

Do the pups seem to have full bellies after nursing or is more of a "sucking their thumb" reflex? That's usually a pretty good way to see if they're getting milk or not.

[AGonzalez]

As young as these pups are I wonder why the vet didn't suggest tube feeding? It appears much easier than trying to get them to take a rubber nipple, and much less time consuming? Just wonder?

[ihartgonzo]

Originally Posted by DogstarAcademy

Breeding at 18 months isn't unusual in a lot of toy breeds- they *do* mature somewhat earlier- and you can test patellas at a year, although I'm not seeing any mention that the OP BOTHERED.

That's true... but, technically, she was BRED 2+ months ago, so she was barely over one year old at that point.

Regardless of breed, I will never agree with breeding dogs who have barely stopped growing themselves. Particularly when it's the dam... =( Most dogs aren't even near reaching social maturity until 2-3 years old. Puppies having puppies is just bound to result in whelping and care issues, IMHO.

OP: Everything you listed is, well, basic care. That's great, but those are not reasons to breed. Dogs should be health tested, temperament tested, and shown/worked to prove that they are an excellent example of their breed and deserve to pass on their lines. It's too late for that now, of course, but it isn't too late to think about any future litters you might produce. I hope the puppies are taking to the bottles... are they? Have you asked the Vet?

[bubbatd]

^^^ of course I agree ! I waited until after 2 and all tests were done . But , this is a done deal ! The welfare of the pups is the importance . To me , if the pups are still nursing maybe the milk will come back in . Unless their weight drops and they cry for food , give Mom a chance !! I had a litter of 13 and never supplimented . Supply and demand .