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Old 07-04-2008, 10:06 PM
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beloved1 beloved1 is offline
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Default Bandages on both forearms

She is 9 weeks old. The minute I start to pick her up out of her pen she bites my arms and draws alot of blood. Yelping, and making any noise only seems to encourage her. What else can I do??????????????


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Old 07-04-2008, 10:12 PM
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Sorry ...I can't remember her background , when you got her , where you got her or her breed . That may help me .
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:09 PM
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Grammy, she's a standard schnauzer, she got her a week ago.

The best advice I can give you at this point is to automatically and as quickly as possible put her back in the pen as soon as she even MOVES to bite you. Put her back in the pen and then ignore her for a few minutes until she calms down, then you can come back and try to pick her up again.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:18 PM
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OK ..... then I fault the breeder .....this pup was not handled properly the 1st 8 weeks . Pups nip in play , but don't bite . I consider this a serious fault that needs major help and a talk with the breeder . I even would consider a replacement if she acts vicious .
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:20 AM
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It's not vicious, it's just stubborn. She is one who will not back down, so training is going to be interesting. The pen idea is good. Thanks. I also put vinegar on my hands and arms. That discourages her while it lasted. She is a handful!!!!! This is going to be interesting! So the breeder should not have allowed her to bite? I know she was recently weaned, too.
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:31 AM
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Grammy's point is that puppies this young should not be biting hard enough out of frustration to draw blood. If she had been properly socialized at the breeder's, she should've learned a bit of bite inhibition, in which case she'd be nipping you but not hard enough to "draw alot of blood" as you say.

It is a good suggestion to talk to the breeder and see what she thinks of the situation, and also a good idea to go ahead and have a trainer come and observe (or, you could even take a video of the situation and send us the link so that we can observe) and see if the biting looks like aggression or normal puppy play.
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved1 View Post
It's not vicious, it's just stubborn. She is one who will not back down, so training is going to be interesting.
BTW, what you're describing here is nothing more than a SMART dog.... she knows that if she continues doing what she's doing, eventually YOU will back down and give in to what she wants. Yes, this will make training difficult because YOU have to always be one step ahead of her, and you have to be absolutely consistent with your rules in order for her to learn that what you say goes. Have you started reading any training books? Or scheduled your puppy class??
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:18 AM
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What kind of a pen are you keeping here in, an x- pen?
Instead of picking the pup up, open the side and teach the pup to come to you and then up into your arms on a cue.
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:37 PM
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I think she is biting because she thinks she is being affectionate or trying to nurse, not sure which. As she runs to me every time she is worried about something, I do not think it is vicious, I think it is just puppy stuff, but she has very sharp teeth and I have old skin or something like that. On the right arm I have a pressure sore syndrome due to a brace I was wearing for a tendonitis problem, which I now can no loger wear, so hurting me is easy.

She is getting used to my verbal cues on what she should not do, but does not recognize any word pertaining to "no" in any shape or form. From anyone, including the other animals. We need to work on that.

Yes, I have downloaded some training info and I am reading it. But the info is standard stuff and does not pertain to the particular problems I need to correct. I have been working on the leash training. Right now she thinks it's a chew toy that follows her around that she can't escape from.

I don't know what an x pen is. It is a metal pen that does not have a door on it right now, as I had to shrink it 2 lengths in order to fir the space. It is a standard metal playpen.
She does come to me and is learning her name. We have made some progress. She recognizes the word "out" and recognizes her name better, and is learning to go up and down the steps to the outdoor patio to the yard, except at night it seems a little harder for her right now. Once in a while she still will stumble, altho her legs are getting stronger and more co-ordinated. The vet says I should not take her anywhere until she has completed all her shots, approx. 16 weeks old. So I don't know that I can take her to class yet.
Today when we got back from the vet my ACD gave her a welcome check sniff, so we are making progress!!!
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Old 07-05-2008, 02:06 PM
Sch3Dana Sch3Dana is offline
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Quote:
Grammy's point is that puppies this young should not be biting hard enough out of frustration to draw blood. If she had been properly socialized at the breeder's, she should've learned a bit of bite inhibition, in which case she'd be nipping you but not hard enough to "draw alot of blood" as you say.
There is an assumption here that the puppy is biting to protest the picking up. That was not at all my first assumption, maybe bc I have working dogs. I have seen many puppies that get excited and bite playfully as soon as you get near them. They are not trying to hurt you, they are just too excited and haven't learned the limits on biting. If the mother and breeder and litter mates didn't teach it, then it's your job. No biggie. (However, if you think she is biting to make you stop handling her, then this is a totally different problem and needs to be dealt with very differently)

Another thing- all of the older clients I ever worked with had this problem to some extent. As you age, your skin gets thinner and more delicate so that normal puppy biting does damage that it would not do to younger skin. So, I'd need to know your age before I'd be shocked that the pup is bloodying your arms.

You've already tried the screaming, which will often work on sensitive, compliant pups. It doesn't work well on tough breeds that have been bred to bite and ignore the screaming. Standard schnauzers are very tough dogs and have been bred for protection work. One alternative is ignoring the puppy, but you'll find this is very hard to do while they are hanging on your arm. You can try to prevent the problem- make sure your arms move nice and slowly and you never jerk them away when she tries to bite- that only makes you more fun to chase.

But when she actually bites, she is rewarding herself and you need to have a way to make it not rewarding for her, or this problem will not go away- biting is just too much fun for a drivey dog. I have had a lot of success with very calm, non-confrontation corrections. If she actually bites you, make sure you do not pull that arm away- that just makes it more fun for her. Hold your arm totally still (you may need to wrap your arms for a while or wear a jacket around her so this doesn't hurt) and reach under her chin with your free hand- nice and easy so she doesn't see it coming. Use that hand to grasp some of the loose skin around her neck and pull her into the bite (not away, which will be your instinct).

Pulling her into the bite is exactly the opposite of what is fun for a pup. She will feel uncomfortable and you will hold her here, tight and firm until you can see her mood change. At that point, she will try to get away from you (a total 180 degree change of mood). I usually hold them a couple seconds longer and then let them go. Make sure you do not move your arms around as you let them go- keep them right where they were. If she tries to bite again, let her and then use your free hand to correct again and hold her a little longer when she wants to go to make the experience that much more unpleasant.

Each time she lets go and backs off, praise her very calmly, but don't try to pet her (any arm movement will excite her and make her want to bite). If she approaches you sweetly, then you can pet her, but make sure you keep all your movements very slow and easy and only pet her from underneath until this problem is resolved. Petting along the top or sides of the head tends to incite the biting, as does rough or fast petting, so make sure you move in slow motion until you have no more problems with this.
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