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  #41  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:30 PM
Suzzie Suzzie is offline
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well of course not. I didn't misunderstand the thread. The thread is ABOUT why you breed, if not for titles, etc. And I posted what's important to me if I were breeding dogs. Their outward physical appearance is, to me, the LAST thing on the list of important things you should breed for in a dog. I'd rather have a dog too large for the standard but with a great disposition than a picture-perfect pooch that won ribbon after ribbon but had a stinky attitude. Looks are always second for me.

The woman I bought Roo from didn't show her dogs. She bred good quality dogs that had sweet temperaments, great health and could go out and do what they were meant to. And I'd buy from her again. In fact, I plan on it. They were AKC registered but that means little anyway. Is she a horrible person for not filling the world with show dogs? I think not.
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  #42  
Old 06-18-2008, 05:33 PM
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ANYONE breeding purebred dogs should be concerned with every facet of producing the best dogs possible. That includes appearance as dictated by the breed standard for most breeds.

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  #43  
Old 06-18-2008, 10:43 PM
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nvr mind.
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  #44  
Old 06-18-2008, 11:09 PM
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I doubt the show world is filling the world with dogs, Suzzie...I think you might mean the BYB, person who doesn't keep Bessie Sue up when she's in season or spay her...the Mills, etc.

By the decree of JQP show people are not allowed to breed often, own too many dogs, or sell too many, or they lose their standing as a reputable breeder. Kinda a catch-22..of which there are many, when you breed dogs.
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  #45  
Old 06-19-2008, 12:01 AM
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Type is important, too. A dog can walk in one end of the building while you're sitting at the other end, and you should be able to go "that's a ______, no doubt about it."
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  #46  
Old 06-19-2008, 05:22 AM
mom2dogs mom2dogs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzzie View Post
The woman I bought Roo from didn't show her dogs. She bred good quality dogs that had sweet temperaments, great health and could go out and do what they were meant to. And I'd buy from her again. In fact, I plan on it. They were AKC registered but that means little anyway. Is she a horrible person for not filling the world with show dogs? I think not.
So instead of showing she is a competitor in herding?
Thought this article would interest someone, did for me:
http://www.digbysystems.com/bluepanda/herding.htm

A dog that conforms well to the standard is a show dog instantly? Umm, no.

Anyone who doesn't attempt to match their dogs to the standard (except a few breeds that actually do work and prove themselves) and use excuses such as "we focus on health and temperament" are BYBs to me. Plain and simple. Those are the ones that are destroying my breed and selling dogs that have heads like Scotties and are tall like Lakies - not what a WHWT is. Oh, but they make great family pets
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  #47  
Old 06-19-2008, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by doberkim View Post
unless you get out there and earn it and PROVE it, then that's all you have - shoulda coulda woulda. You don't get to breed on those.
I agree. Strongly. "He could be shown if I wanted to", etc doesn't fly with me. Any registered dog "could" be shown. That doesn't mean they'd measure up. I don't care how many champions are behind your dog, unless YOUR dog is out there bringing home those titles, those other titles don't mean that much. And I'm sorry, but "good temperament" and CGCs and being a therapy dog- well, my shelter dogs can do that. It doesn't make them good breeding stock.

Breeding isn't supposed to be cheap, and it isn't supposed to be easy. A big chunk of that is the time, effort, and money it takes to prove your dog's worth in front of a judge, whether that be a conformation judge or a schutzhund judge, or whatever.

I'll give actual working dogs a pass on a lot of stuff (though these dogs are dogs who ARE working, not who COULD work) but that's about it.
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  #48  
Old 06-19-2008, 06:34 AM
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So say you have a breed of dog where the breed standard keeps veering away from what you think it should be. And further, the style is even more extreme than the breed standard. And this is what is placing in the show ring.But you have a line of dogs you inherited from your relative that exeplify what you think the breed ought to be. Then is it OK to breed your line, even if it can't place in the show ring, in order to preserve what your breed SHOULD be like?
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  #49  
Old 06-19-2008, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers View Post
ANYONE breeding purebred dogs should be concerned with every facet of producing the best dogs possible. That includes appearance as dictated by the breed standard for most breeds.


Who WRITES these breed standards?

Breeding dogs that cannot perform what they were originally bred for by the people who "invented" them is stupid.

Most show dogs look NOTHING like their working counterparts.

So what IS their purpose?

Nothing apart from satisfying human folly.
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  #50  
Old 06-19-2008, 07:33 AM
RedyreRottweilers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Who WRITES these breed standards?
I am not sure about the UK, but in the US, the National Club for each breed writes the breed standard.

Breed standards may NOT be changed on a whim. Changes to breed standards must not only be approved by the American Kennel Club, they must then be sent to the membership of the club, and they must pass by a 2/3s majority of the vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Breeding dogs that cannot perform what they were originally bred for by the people who "invented" them is stupid.
Dizzy, many breeds cannot LEGALLY perform what they were originally bred for. As an example, bull baiting and dog fighting is illegal, so Bulldogs or APBTs could never perform the function for which they are bred.

Many of the drover breeds such as Rottweilers or OES may only rarely be able to perform their original functions, as no one drives large herds of stock to market using dogs any more.

How many people have access to stock to work who have herding breeds? At least we do have herding competitions that one can compete it, but not all people who have herding breeds have access to this either.

In today's anti dog environment, dogs who were bred for guard and protection work are often not worked in these venues, since having dogs trained to bite is illegal in many areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Most show dogs look NOTHING like their working counterparts.
This is what happens when breeders do not INSIST on dogs who can do it all.

If one stops paying attention to selecting dogs for correct breed type, and selects only for working ability, then those dogs will begin to diverge from what is generally accepted as good breed type. Same with working abilities. If dogs are not trained, tested, worked, and/or competed with, you will lose the working ability in a percentage of the resulting progeny.

It is truly a USE IT OR LOSE IT prospect with breeding dogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
So what IS their purpose?

Nothing apart from satisfying human folly.
Maybe. If not for that "human folly", MANY breeds would have disappeared when they were no longer needed to serve their original purpose.
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