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  #31  
Old 06-18-2008, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MelissaCato View Post
Politics. Your a perfect example of how democracy wins in the show ring. JMO.
Democracy? As in, everybody votes for the best dog? Sounds more like sour grapes to me.
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  #32  
Old 06-18-2008, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamutt99 View Post
Democracy? As in, everybody votes for the best dog? Sounds more like sour grapes to me.
Agreed..
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  #33  
Old 06-18-2008, 07:14 AM
doberkim doberkim is offline
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
My answer would be a sound temperament, good health, and a good representation of the breed (both physical and temperament wise) and what it's supposed to be.

AKA for my breed- cute sweet dogs with rather large ears.
Without being rude, then can't any old person breed cute sweet papillons with big ears? I mean, anyone can produce those. If that's the goal... if that is really what you just reduced your breed to... I feel that statement really just reduced your breed to very little, whether or not you meant to.



Personally, I do have high standards. I do feel that dogs need to have titles and need to be worked, and I do feel that it of course depends on the breed, but as I own and work a working breed, clearly it should be worked to deserve to be bred. A doberman without drive, without biddability, without the desire to get out there and do something is a really sad dobe.

I don't buy the people who say my dog could have this title if I was better, if I had the time, if I was a better handler (in some instances - I train Rah, and he will be titled - if I was a better handler it would be faster, but we are slowed down by that right now - I have trained enough to know that my handling holds him back, and that training gives me that awareness), I don't show because it's too political, I just don't feel like it, someone else said they would easily get this title, my trainer said they could have it. unless you get out there and earn it and PROVE it, then that's all you have - shoulda coulda woulda. You don't get to breed on those.

I am more focused on working than anything else - I appreciate the good structure in the breed, but I also know that I do not believe that the AKC Ch is the be all, end all in my breed. I would take a working dog over an AKC Ch in my breed and chose that in my pup. I also feel health and temperament are a big issue in my breed, and feel that all need to be addressed.

(I have a lot more to say but I have to go to work now, ARGH!)
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Last edited by doberkim; 06-18-2008 at 07:24 AM.
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  #34  
Old 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamutt99 View Post
Democracy? As in, everybody votes for the best dog? Sounds more like sour grapes to me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my limited understanding of judging at dog shows is that each dog is judged first and foremost against the standard, physically and temperamentally, rather than the other dogs in the ring.

Then, after the dogs that are closest to the ideal standard are ascertained, the intangibles can be the deciding factor; the dog's mental carriage, confidence, the things that make an ideal example of that breed?
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  #35  
Old 06-18-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doberkim View Post
Without being rude, then can't any old person breed cute sweet papillons with big ears? I mean, anyone can produce those. If that's the goal... if that is really what you just reduced your breed to... I feel that statement really just reduced your breed to very little, whether or not you meant to.
Nah, I was being sarcastic. And lazy. You have to understand most my posts are sarcastic.

The first sentence was my real answer, which I thought rather apparent:

Quote:
My answer would be a sound temperament, good health, and a good representation of the breed (both physical and temperament wise) and what it's supposed to be.
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  #36  
Old 06-18-2008, 11:35 AM
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Knock Knock?

You seem to have plenty of time to post until someone asks you some real questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelissaCato
Politics. Your a perfect example of how democracy wins in the show ring. JMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers View Post
And what exactly does this mean, Melissa Cato?

Are you saying that my dog did not earn her Championship or obedience titles fair and square?

Are you accusing me of cheating?

Are you insinuating that the judges that awarded my dog Championship points, or scored her in Obedience are not good judges?

Do you have something to say about my High In Trial scores? Or my top ten ranking in the ARC Novice stats for the first quarter of 2006?

The Breed show ring is no democracy, it is an AUTOCRACY, with the judge in charge of what happens. In the obedience ring as well as the breed ring, dogs technically do not compete against each other, but against a perfect score or the breed standard.

So tell us, Melissa Cato, exactly what you mean by your above statement, because I, for one, would like to know.
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  #37  
Old 06-18-2008, 03:47 PM
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For me, the ideal dog (and one that should be bred) is:

One that has passed health testing.

One that has been shown and achieved points in conformation (unless of course, we're talking about a rare breed that cannot be shown)

One that is able to do the job that it was originally intended for (unless of course, in the case of some breeds, that original intention is now illegal)

One that has the temperament ideal of its breed.
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  #38  
Old 06-18-2008, 03:59 PM
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i don't particularly care if my pet is a flawless show dog, and i find most people are way too anal about it.

i want good health, a reasonable representation of the breed, sound temperament, and if i needed the dog to go out and herd sheep or whatever it's supposed to do, it could do it.

That, and keep my feet warm on cold winter nights.
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  #39  
Old 06-18-2008, 06:04 PM
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Most people don't care whether or not someone's pet is a show dog. There's a difference between placing pets and improving the breed.
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  #40  
Old 06-18-2008, 06:22 PM
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I was at my Golden Retriever Club's Annual awards banquets one year . Bubba was to get an award for over 500 TDI visits . When the division was announced .... a gal behind me , who does show very seriously nation wide , said " Sh*t , do we have to sit through this ! Let's get on to the important awards ! " I'd take my silver cups and awards over hers any day ! Yes , she wins well but has always been a poor loser .
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