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  #11  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:37 PM
Gempress Gempress is offline
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Originally Posted by Buddy'sParents View Post
I guess my question would be why? Why make it roses when a breeder who only cares about producing 60k that year of puppies does just that? I'd almost rather people believe that dogs from bybs and mills are not naturally sound just to avoid supporting them.
Because:
- People who come to the forums with a puppy from a BYB are basically told they're doomed.
- It's hard to encourage people to adopt dogs rescued from puppy mills if you're continually saying how horrible those dogs are.
- By doing so, you're also undermining rescue. There's already enough stigma about shelter dogs and rescue dogs being "rejects". The blanket label placed on all BYB puppies basically agrees with that.

I'm not trying to say we need to make the situation into roses. But we don't need to preach that all BYB dogs and puppies are ticking time bombs just waiting to go off, either.
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  #12  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:50 PM
Buddy'sParents Buddy'sParents is offline
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I don't think unexperienced owners should get dogs from bybs/mills because it is a grab bag and you don't want those people jaded. It would be another thing for someone who is educated about what mills and bybs are to adopt and be ready to accept whatever kind of troubles come their way.

I'd rather these people go to responsible and ethical breeders and/or rescues. If it saves people from heartache and it stops the supporting of bybs and mills then I'm all for it. Should the delivery of the message be candy-coated? Maybe. But if someone was serious enough about adding a canine addition to their home they would have done the research beforehand would have known better to begin with.
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  #13  
Old 06-02-2008, 03:05 PM
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To me Puppy Mills are just that ......caged dogs that are bred every heat to selling purposes only . To me there are 3 types of BYBs.....whoops litters , ..... " let's let Rosie have at least one litter " ....... and " we could make some money by breeding Tootie to Boots " . Some of these could have nice , well socialized pups . It's the luck of the draw . Do you buy them at home ...or wait until they end up at the HS ??? I would never buy from anyone who breeds twice a year , or has more than one breed being bred .
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2008, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy'sParents View Post
I don't think unexperienced owners should get dogs from bybs/mills because it is a grab bag and you don't want those people jaded. It would be another thing for someone who is educated about what mills and bybs are to adopt and be ready to accept whatever kind of troubles come their way.

I'd rather these people go to responsible and ethical breeders and/or rescues. If it saves people from heartache and it stops the supporting of bybs and mills then I'm all for it. Should the delivery of the message be candy-coated? Maybe. But if someone was serious enough about adding a canine addition to their home they would have done the research beforehand would have known better to begin with.

What you're saying makes perfect sense. However, I wonder sometimes what the chances are of a first time owner getting a dog from a rescue or breeder. Both are usually very strict about who they let their dogs go to.

It seems to be a catch-22:
Inexperienced owners should only get dogs from trusted sources

but trusted sources are often reluctant to let their dogs go to inexperienced owners.
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  #15  
Old 06-02-2008, 04:20 PM
Buddy'sParents Buddy'sParents is offline
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In my opinion a responsible/ethical rescue would do what they could to provide a sound, forever home and would stay with that owner and dog for life. It wouldn't be a "here's your doggie, enjoy!" It would be a "here's your dog, let us know if you have any questions, call so-and-so anytime". Are they rare? Yep. But they do exist and if more people supported them they would be more powerful and able to help more dogs and help educate people. If a rescue truly could not find a match for a person then perhaps one should look at why versus "that rescue wouldn't give me a dog, I'm going to go to a dog supply store".

I know, I know.. I hold such ideals for the world.. but I declare that right to do so.
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  #16  
Old 06-02-2008, 06:13 PM
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I think part of the difference between a BYB-bred dog and a rescue dog is the expectations going in. Most people looking into rescue are aware that the dog may have some emotional/behavioral/health issues (although many are perfectly sound dogs in every way). They know the dog is coming from an unknown source and are prepared to deal with it. Whereas someone buying a puppy from a BYB/puppy mill may not know what they are getting in to, and should be made aware of the possible issues they need to look out for.

Age is also a big difference already mentioned. Rescuing a 3-year old dog means you are going to get a pretty decent glance into the dog's behavior/temperment, and the start of a look at health issues. Rescuing or purchasing an 8 week old puppy from 'unknown' sources is much more a crapshoot.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:38 PM
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yeah I've probably warned about the temperament and health of BYB dogs but don't say it of rescues. I think getting a PUPPY from a rescue is just as risky temperament wise as getting a BYB puppy, you know nothing solid about his parents and have no proof of good temperament. With an adult rescue they have been temperament tested so you at least have something to go off of. The main reason i do it though is to really put BYBs down, anything to make them sound bad is fine by me because they are bad, and we are not lying, we just don't talk about rescues that way. As BB said, most people getting a dog prepare for possible emotion/socialization problems with a rescued dog but not from a breeder dog because you expect nothing bad has happened in their past and that they have been well cared for when that's not always true.

but you are right, a BYB dog and shelter dog, looking JUST at the dogs, are one in the same, they are both probably BYB dogs.
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  #18  
Old 06-02-2008, 11:36 PM
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Emma is a pet store puppy and I tell you her temperment is sharp. She does have a beagle temperment but also a nasty one undernieth.
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  #19  
Old 06-03-2008, 02:01 AM
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Lately, I find myself realizing how hypocritical that particular attitude really is. Think about it---I would bet that 99.9% of the rescue dogs we sing praises about come from BYBs and puppy mills.
Of course they do. (Mine comes from a BYB, I should know - it was a connection I made long ago and I knew what I was getting into, yet I still plan to rescue.) As everyone else has said.. most people don't make the connection, and if they do, they realize the differences in where they are putting their money. I see your point and actually agree with you that sometimes we need to tone it down, though.

However... as far as "singing praises about".... Sure we do. We LOVE to see pictures of dogs and hear about their exploits, and praise how adorable/sweet/etc they are. But a whole heck of a lot of the dogs we sing praises about - just on chaz - DO come with problems. Whether it's allergies, like Buddy, SA, housebreaking problems (Belle), fear aggression (Daisy), hip dysplasia, structural problems (Frodo)... my list goes on. The thing is, YES we love our chaz dogs and think they are beautiful and wonderful and the best thing since sliced bread - as we should. But they do often have their own problems, big or small. They often come with fantabulous temperaments.... and then again they often do not. There are usually behavioral or health problems. Now, while well-bred dogs can have these problems, too, and we have examples of that right on this forum.. I find it hard to believe that it's a bad idea to stress buying from a breeder like that if we can.
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  #20  
Old 06-03-2008, 02:05 AM
Buddy'sParents Buddy'sParents is offline
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Originally Posted by noludoru View Post
Of course they do. (Mine comes from a BYB, I should know - it was a connection I made long ago and I knew what I was getting into, yet I still plan to rescue.) As everyone else has said.. most people don't make the connection, and if they do, they realize the differences in where they are putting their money. I see your point and actually agree with you that sometimes we need to tone it down, though.

However... as far as "singing praises about".... Sure we do. We LOVE to see pictures of dogs and hear about their exploits, and praise how adorable/sweet/etc they are. But a whole heck of a lot of the dogs we sing praises about - just on chaz - DO come with problems. Whether it's allergies, like Buddy, SA, housebreaking problems (Belle), fear aggression (Daisy), hip dysplasia, structural problems (Frodo)... my list goes on. The thing is, YES we love our chaz dogs and think they are beautiful and wonderful and the best thing since sliced bread - as we should. But they do often have their own problems, big or small. They often come with fantabulous temperaments.... and then again they often do not. There are usually behavioral or health problems. Now, while well-bred dogs can have these problems, too, and we have examples of that right on this forum.. I find it hard to believe that it's a bad idea to stress buying from a breeder like that if we can.
Thank you.
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