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Old 05-14-2008, 12:36 AM
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Default Defining appropriate noise

Cider is well loud. She's improved in some areas and gotten worse in others. She is still offended at the existence of Smudge though it's been 8 or so months. She used to bark about him a lot. Now she makes quiet little woofs. So while better, it's also not as she doesn't make a few, she makes endless little woofs voicing her displeasure of being even on the same planet with him. I've tried distracting her with other behaviours asking her to do things for me. Gotten her to hold toys in her mouth since it's incompatible.. I can minimize it for a moment, I'm not sure how to minimize it long term, or when I should let her be annoyed and make woofs, and when I should be telling her to be quiet as I'm sick of her sitting 15 feet away from him and spending half an hour making grumpy noise.

If he's bothering her, I figure it's fair for her to make noises.. If he's a pill I'll put him away for a while, or give him something not do away from her. I don't think she hates him though as she invites him to play at times.. her play style is a little not normal though. She'll never be normal and I know this, we have peace in the house, I'm just a little tired at times of the noise.

I'm not sure if my criteria for enough should be more concrete,.. I tried clickering the silence, but I couldn't build up enough quiet time.. It's an off and on thing though. She's sleeping and quiet has been for about half an hour. 20 minutes before that though there was at least 15 minutes of woofs..

Sorry for the ranty long post. I'm sick of the no reason noise, and I think I let her get away with it because I feel bad she's not lovey with Smudge. I'm really not sure what steps to take to end it. I kind of hoped if I ignored it it would extinguish, and I spent months ignoring it. after about 6 I had enough though the type of noise lessened, few and far between sharp barks at the worst hours of the day like midnight.. It's just the quantity of it that I'm really tired of and I think I'm loosing my patience..
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:04 AM
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Sorry hun, I have no idea. I have heard her do it and it is irritating.
Ear plugs?
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:30 AM
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Maybe reverse the situation and put her up when she starts making grumpy noises? Only when Smudge isn't actively pestering her of course, just when she's sitting 15 feet away grumbling. That behavior is just as much of a "pill" as Smudge being in her face.
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:30 PM
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She makes it crated as well even when she's crated herself and swung the door shut..

Do I move a crate out of my room, and crate her there when she's noisy for no reason, as there's no difference even crated with a blanket so she can't see what's going on.
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Old 05-15-2008, 05:43 PM
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Wait, I don't understand - she's making the "grumpy noises" while she's in her crate? And she does this when she's gone into the crate on her own?? If so, it does sound like the other dog is bothering her too much, and you need to separate them somehow so that she can calm down. I'd probably just lock her crate door shut, and close the bedroom door so that Smudge is out of the room. If she still grumbles while smudge is right outside the door, take smudge away so that she doesn't hear him.
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:22 PM
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No she's making 24-7 grumpy noises. She's quite happy in a crate, but if she chooses to go in and he's around she will keep up said noises endlessly. Perhaps if he goes under the bed out of sight will she finally shut her face.. But she'll do that crated or not..

I'd have to separate them for life. He isn't doing anything to her, she likes to hear herself. They'll literally have to live in other rooms to keep her quiet, and that's just not going to happen. Since I live in my bedroom, I can't just lock him out. He's the unreliable one being a young adult and all.. He spends some time crated, but Separating them doesn't solve this issue..
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:31 PM
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Have you tried rewarding her for just being quiet? Or try to make Smudge into a game, I'm sure she's used to the clicker, so try clicking her for choosing to lay next to him, etc. It may take a while, but over time, being close to him will become more rewarding.
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:36 PM
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Ok, this is what I do with my dog (never read it in a book, and I'm sure some will not agree, but here goes):

First, I teach her to relax (preferably to be happy) when she's on her back in my lap, belly up. You can teach this by luring it (much like roll over, except it's between your legs), or if she's small enough you can even just flip her over and make it a lot of fun whenever she's calm and relaxed. Eventually she'll learn to relax and settle down when you're holding her that way.

Plus she can't vocalize very well when she's upside down.

Then, you can use that to teach quiet. Decide on your criteria - for example, she can vocalize for 5 seconds, but then you need her to stop. After your time period, tell her "enough." Make sure to say it in a firm (but not yelling) voice, make it quick and sharp to get her attention. If she gives you attention and stops vocalizing, you can praise, treat, or redirect with a toy or training session, whatever you want to do. I don't click for this, because I feel like clicking works better for behaviors that happen, like a sit, not for behaviors that end, like vocalizing. But that's just me, I know some experts argue otherwise. Anyway, if she goes back to vocalizing, right then pick her up and hold her upside down like you'd been practicing. Again, reward her for being calm while you're holding her, and don't let her go until she's nice and relaxed. When you do let her go, if she vocalizes again you can try saying "enough" again, or just pick her right back up again.

I used this method when my dog does the same behavior when she thinks she hears a noise outside. It did work, but took a while because she doesn't do the behavior that often. Hopefully it'll work for you. Please let us know!
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