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  #11  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:37 AM
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corgipower corgipower is offline
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Case/Scenario 1

I don't know if I would have done the repeat breeding originally, but I definitely wouldn't do it again if the second litter wasn't that great.

Case/Scenario Two

Nope. Proven health problems in the line - especially that close in the line shouldn't be bred. Just because the younger one is healthy doesn't mean she'll stay healthy, and doesn't mean she isn't carrying genes to produce the health problems seen in her sire.

If they were health problems that could be reliably tested for with DNA testing, I might consider that.

Case/Scenario Tres

Depends entirely on why she wasn't titled. You mention too lazy to title. If I'm too lazy to title I have no business breeding anything. If she's not titled because she was doing other work - a dog in LE, a dog working stock on a ranch, etc. I would breed her. Titles aren't always necessary, but I would have other people who know the breed assess her.

Case/Scenario Go

Nope. I don't view DJD1 or monorchid to be minor flaws. Now if it was a minor flaw like a white spot that was bigger than a quarter, that wouldn't bother me.

Case/Scenario VI

I probably wouldn't breed either again.

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(By the way, because I am weird, the Cases are numbered as follows.
1, numerical
2, written english
3, spanish
there is no four.
5, Japanese
6, Roman Numerals.
Yes, weird.
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  #12  
Old 05-13-2008, 01:08 PM
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JennSLK JennSLK is offline
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Case/Scenario 1

You have two dogs, titled, health tested and cleared. Both dogs ahave excellent temperaments, nice conformation and work ethic. You breed them once, and get excellent puppies. Exactly what you were hoping for with this cross of bloodlines. The puppies are extremely nice all around. Many go on to be titled before or soon after they are a year old. (Also, in this one, I'm not talking about conformation titles, I'm talking about working titles, lets assume the conformation is second to the health, temperament and working drive here.) (An, lets not debate working younger dogs. Lets assume also that they are earning titles that are not straining their joints and such)

You breed this cross again a year and a half later. Same parents. This time the puppies are not as outgoing, not as drivey, not as sound conformation wise. Would you try again with this cross? If not, you wouldn't even try one more time? Why or why not?

Depending on what what I was trying to do by doing the first repeate breeding. I MAY do the 1st repeate breeding, but I would NOT do the 2nd repeate


Case/Scenario Two

(The younger dog can be either a girl or boy. It doesn't matter)

You have a young dog, and you have their father. The younger dog is say, a year and a half. The father is a nice successful dog, titled and campaigned well. Say he's eight. Not old, but not really young either. The younger dog is well on her way to being as successful as her father. Then the father starts having seizures or develops a cancer well known in the breed.

Would you breed the younger dog? Or would you breed it if you researched the lines you were breeding to even more carefully than normal for seizures/cancer? Why? Why not?

If the youngster was a bitch, no. If it was a male I would finish his titles and everything. Have him collected and then maybe use what I had stored AFTER he was 9 or 10.

Case/Scenario Tres

You have a nice conformationally sound (for working, say, the dog probably isn't going to finish or step foot in Westminster) dog. Excellent drive, temperament, and great health. Would you breed this dog even if you had never titled her? You know she can do the work, but you just haven't gotten around to titling her. You have a stud who would bring out everything that makes her great and round out whatever it is that makes her not so great. Whatever points that may be. Make it up yourself. Would you breed this dog? She can do it. That is not the question. You know if you were to trial her, she could and would win. You just, are, lazy. Would you breed her? Or would you wait until you titled her? Would it change if the dog was six? Or eight? And you absolutely wanted to carry her bloodlines in your program? What would you do? What would you consider poor breeding practices?

No. Unless the dog was hurt and that was the reasoning for no titles, but sound enough to breed. If you cant be bothered to finish a dog (proformance or other wise) then you cant be bothered to have a litter

Case/Scenario Go

You have a nice dog, all around great dog. Does his job or his sport well, is highly regarded by everyone in your breed to be an excellent representation of the breed. The problem is, he has a problem. Lets say, he either has DJD1 issues or he is a monorchid, or his bite is not correct, scissor instead of level, something relatively minor, but that has a chance to be passed on to any pups. Remember, we are talking working dogs. This means working dogs who have pretty much split from the show ring for the most part. His bite doesn't matter as long as he doesn't have a wry mouth or something.
Would you breed this dog? Yes? No? Why not?
If you did decide to breed, would you just tell the new owners or potential owners of the pups about the problem, or would you go one step further and insure that all pups were spayed and neutered. If so, what would have been the point of breeding him? You've just made more dogs, and the line is still not going any further. Could you justify that?

It would depend on the issue. Would I breed a VwD Affected dobe? Yes. You have to watch what you breed them to. And only 3% of Affected dobes ever have problems, and those problems are usually minor because out of the 3 types of VwD dobes have the least severity. Thyroid no, cardio no, hips/elbows no, and cerf no.

Case/Scenario VI

You produce a litter out of two nice dogs. All the puppies in this litter are extremely shy. All need intense socialization to be even slightly normal. One or two is extremely fearful and all have to be placed into experienced pet homes. None have developed fear aggression, but all are slightly wary of meeting new people and prefer to run away rather than greet. Would you breed these two dogs again? To each other? To another dog? Why or why not again..?

I would take a long look at the sire/dam. They would not be bred to eachother. I may considering breeding to someone else who was a total outcross
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2008, 01:38 PM
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Paige Paige is offline
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I'd breed none because I am too much of an idiot to be able to breed properly. I know this. That's why I respect those of you who actually know what you are doing. Beyond "OMG CUTE" no other thoughts pass through my mind when it comes to breeding dogs.

/bad me
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:22 PM
doberkim doberkim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JennSLK View Post
Case/Scenario 1

You have two dogs, titled, health tested and cleared. Both dogs ahave excellent temperaments, nice conformation and work ethic. You breed them once, and get excellent puppies. Exactly what you were hoping for with this cross of bloodlines. The puppies are extremely nice all around. Many go on to be titled before or soon after they are a year old. (Also, in this one, I'm not talking about conformation titles, I'm talking about working titles, lets assume the conformation is second to the health, temperament and working drive here.) (An, lets not debate working younger dogs. Lets assume also that they are earning titles that are not straining their joints and such)

You breed this cross again a year and a half later. Same parents. This time the puppies are not as outgoing, not as drivey, not as sound conformation wise. Would you try again with this cross? If not, you wouldn't even try one more time? Why or why not?

Depending on what what I was trying to do by doing the first repeate breeding. I MAY do the 1st repeate breeding, but I would NOT do the 2nd repeate


Case/Scenario Two

(The younger dog can be either a girl or boy. It doesn't matter)

You have a young dog, and you have their father. The younger dog is say, a year and a half. The father is a nice successful dog, titled and campaigned well. Say he's eight. Not old, but not really young either. The younger dog is well on her way to being as successful as her father. Then the father starts having seizures or develops a cancer well known in the breed.

Would you breed the younger dog? Or would you breed it if you researched the lines you were breeding to even more carefully than normal for seizures/cancer? Why? Why not?

If the youngster was a bitch, no. If it was a male I would finish his titles and everything. Have him collected and then maybe use what I had stored AFTER he was 9 or 10.

Case/Scenario Tres

You have a nice conformationally sound (for working, say, the dog probably isn't going to finish or step foot in Westminster) dog. Excellent drive, temperament, and great health. Would you breed this dog even if you had never titled her? You know she can do the work, but you just haven't gotten around to titling her. You have a stud who would bring out everything that makes her great and round out whatever it is that makes her not so great. Whatever points that may be. Make it up yourself. Would you breed this dog? She can do it. That is not the question. You know if you were to trial her, she could and would win. You just, are, lazy. Would you breed her? Or would you wait until you titled her? Would it change if the dog was six? Or eight? And you absolutely wanted to carry her bloodlines in your program? What would you do? What would you consider poor breeding practices?

No. Unless the dog was hurt and that was the reasoning for no titles, but sound enough to breed. If you cant be bothered to finish a dog (proformance or other wise) then you cant be bothered to have a litter

Case/Scenario Go

You have a nice dog, all around great dog. Does his job or his sport well, is highly regarded by everyone in your breed to be an excellent representation of the breed. The problem is, he has a problem. Lets say, he either has DJD1 issues or he is a monorchid, or his bite is not correct, scissor instead of level, something relatively minor, but that has a chance to be passed on to any pups. Remember, we are talking working dogs. This means working dogs who have pretty much split from the show ring for the most part. His bite doesn't matter as long as he doesn't have a wry mouth or something.
Would you breed this dog? Yes? No? Why not?
If you did decide to breed, would you just tell the new owners or potential owners of the pups about the problem, or would you go one step further and insure that all pups were spayed and neutered. If so, what would have been the point of breeding him? You've just made more dogs, and the line is still not going any further. Could you justify that?

It would depend on the issue. Would I breed a VwD Affected dobe? Yes. You have to watch what you breed them to. And only 3% of Affected dobes ever have problems, and those problems are usually minor because out of the 3 types of VwD dobes have the least severity. Thyroid no, cardio no, hips/elbows no, and cerf no.

Case/Scenario VI

You produce a litter out of two nice dogs. All the puppies in this litter are extremely shy. All need intense socialization to be even slightly normal. One or two is extremely fearful and all have to be placed into experienced pet homes. None have developed fear aggression, but all are slightly wary of meeting new people and prefer to run away rather than greet. Would you breed these two dogs again? To each other? To another dog? Why or why not again..?

I would take a long look at the sire/dam. They would not be bred to eachother. I may considering breeding to someone else who was a total outcross
Jenn, you are saying you wouldn't breed a doberman that is hypothyroid? or a dog proven to have autoimmune thyroiditis?
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  #15  
Old 05-13-2008, 11:54 PM
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JennSLK JennSLK is offline
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I doupt it. I am looking into it more. From my understanding it can come with a whole host of fertility problems.

However I dont know to much about the condition (wich Im working on changing)

I have to say if Jazz came back hypothyroid right now at 2, I would re test and if the same results came back then I may spay her after some serious thought, and detailed conversations with our vet and other breeders I know.

Jazz may be my foundation. I dont really think I want to start my kennel and have my entire breeding program based on a thyroid problem.
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  #16  
Old 05-13-2008, 11:55 PM
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JennSLK JennSLK is offline
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Also Kim, what are the chances its a genetic thing? Thats my concern. I have been told that it is a 50/50 thing if it will be passed down.
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