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  #41  
Old 04-22-2008, 10:47 PM
showdawgz showdawgz is offline
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There is a HUGE conflict between work and sport dogs in MANY breeds, not just one .

I'm going to make a reference to something that I am more familiar with. Schutzhund dogs are great on the field, are known to be flashy and typically are worked mainly in prey drive (at least these days). Great for repitition as the routine is the same every time. Now just because a dog has a Sch title does not mean they will protect you in real life. A protection dog has to have the courage and temperament to actually fight a real threat and most schutzhund dogs will back down at the first sign of stress, but then some DO posess the proper drives to do both. It all comes down to genetics. Some dogs CAN do both (work and sport) whereas some can only do one or the other.
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  #42  
Old 04-23-2008, 08:33 AM
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PAWZ PAWZ is offline
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Do NOT go to a confirmation breeder that does not work her dogs, and I am not talking akc herding tests, agility, flyball or whatever. BCs are bred to work and should be bred for that reason only to parents that are working dogs, have working titles at open level or higher. OFA Good (minimum) and CERF -normal are a must, look for epilepsy in the line too as that is becoming more prevelent in the breed. AKC/CKC registered dogs are nice looking but instinct wise theres not usually a whole lot going on upstairs. Sport bred dogs can have some nice working lines behind them, but I dont believe in breeding a dog just because he/she is good at agility. Stick to the working dog, in a litter not every pup has the ability or desire to work and a good breeder can evaluate their pups for that desire/drive. I know of several breeders here in the US that breed working dogs that are in big demand from agility people.
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  #43  
Old 04-23-2008, 05:00 PM
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AllieMackie AllieMackie is offline
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Hey all!

I'm the friend that Beanie was referring to - I've had an account here for a little bit, to watch threads, but never posted. Hello!

Since Beanie originally posted, I found a few other breeders that I've been in contact with. Amanda Milliken is nice, and her dogs seem of great working stock, with some of the offspring going flyball and agility here in Ottawa. She gave me references, which is great! But, her only litter this year, she said, is due next week - and I don't even have my new house until August, and would probably look for a pup withing the realm of Fall 2008-Winter 2008/2009.

I also contacted Margaret at Rival Kennels:

http://www.rivalkennels.com/index.htm

We had a good email chat, mostly figuring out if her dogs would be well-fitted to me - she breeds for both working and sport, seems like a lot of her offspring go to sport families. She said her dogs and their offspring are, with training, good at controlling their drive when inside the house, which is extremely important. Does anyone hyere know anything about her dogs, who might be able to offer some insight?

I've also emailed a few contacts I got from thew CBCA website, but not much else in the way of reputable responses yet.

Thanks for the suggestions and help so far!
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  #44  
Old 04-23-2008, 05:22 PM
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So how show BC are in comparation of the sportting and working ones?

I'm curious
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  #45  
Old 04-23-2008, 05:56 PM
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CharlieDog CharlieDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire-Light View Post
So how show BC are in comparison of the sporting and working ones?

I'm curious
Its been my experience that this sparks a lot of debate.

Mostly though, you are going to hear people say this;

Show line Border Collies are all fluffy, dead eyed clones. Not an ounce of instinct left in them, and no drive, blah blah blah. Seriously. Personally, it is a bit creepy how they all have the same markings, the same blaze up their nose, the same amount of white on their ruffs. Border Collies aren't supposed to look a certain way. Who cares if they are purple, as long as they can work stock?

The so called "sporting" line of Border Collies has also sparked a serious debate. Supposedly these are the Border Collies to blame for the prevalent theory that all Border Collies are maniacs with no off switch, and unless you have fifty acres and endless amounts of time to devote to making sure this type of dog is sufficiently exercised, don't ever ever get a Border Collie.

Then, we have the working line dogs. And, supposedly, this is the best route to go should you want a Border Collie for something other than amusing yourself watching it spin around in circles while you search frantically for a tennis ball. Working line dogs should be able to do everything a sport line dog can do. The opposite however, does not always hold true, in that sport line dogs can retain enough instinct to herd sheep, goats, whatever.

Working lines dogs have an off switch. Its up to the puppy buyer to make sure that is developed, and I'm not sure how much of the sport dog theory is due to the handlers, or the breeding. I don't know, I don't breed, and I have done minimal research on sport line breeders, mostly because I knew where I wanted my dog from.

That said however, not every working line dog has the temperament, the instinct or the drive to work stock. These dogs can and DO go on to make excellent sport dogs, companions, service dogs, and many other things.

Sport dog lines seem to be producing dogs with HUGE amounts of drive, and others with almost none. The latter usually gets placed in a pet home, and the former goes on to perpetuate the crazy Border Collie sport dog type.

Working line breeders and fanciers are upset because this is a breed whose only written standard should be a WORKING standard. Not a conformation one. As soon as you start selecting for any trait besides temperament, working ability, and drive to do the work(and in my opinion it should be in that order too), you lose that instinct. And you create dogs with the right shoulder set to trot around the ring, maybe, but you've created a Border Collie who can't do the work because now, his shoulder is to upright, and he would hurt himself if he had to do a 800+yard outrun to do a double lift on heavy stock. Thats my take on it anyway.

I'll get off my soapbox now.
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  #46  
Old 04-23-2008, 08:13 PM
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Have you ever eaten fake meat? Looks like meat, can fool the eye but it doesn't fool your taste. That's how I always looked at it. No matter how nice they make that darn tofu look it never measures up to the real thing.

(ps- I'm having a meat craving right now. Darn veganism. Some times I really just want to bite into a huge steak!)
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  #47  
Old 04-24-2008, 01:14 PM
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Hi Allie! Glad you could come on here.

Would you consider shipping a pup? Or flying to get a pup? That might open up your options some.
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  #48  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:37 PM
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AllieMackie AllieMackie is offline
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I would rather have a breeder that's withing driving distance, since it makes things easier to keep in touch with the breeder, visit the breeder, etc.

Currently contacting Rival Kennels and Cedar Border Collies, since both breed fantastic dogs, by the looks of things, and offspring of both go to homes in similar situations as mine.

Any thoughts on those two? I'm arranging to go meet with them personally sometime next week or the week after.
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  #49  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:41 PM
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Oh, right, I already mentioned Rival Kennels above. Oops!

I also need to contact the OVBCC. I think there's a Flyball tourney this weekend, that I might be able to get to on the Sunday. I'd love to meet some locals and get their opinions. Plus, then I'll know more about the local events my dog and I could get involved in.
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  #50  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:55 PM
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Just be careful, like said, with going to the dog sport tourney. Most of the breeders there are going to be breeding sport BCs, not working BCs.

But, me personally, I wouldn't go with either of those 2 breeders.
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