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  #11  
Old 03-29-2008, 07:15 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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If that didn't work, I would put her in a sit/stay and walk ahead of her leaving her their. Usually that would do the trick because she's interested in why I'm "leaving" her.
Umm, WHAT??

You're putting a reactive dog in a sit/stay WHILE she's being reactive, and then walking away?? Did I read that right?? And she stays while you walk away, even though you cannot get her to look at you??

If I tried that with my dog, first of all, no amount of leash correction would work to get her attention, much less make her responsive to a sit/stay. And if I tried to walk away, she'd just run to the dog she's reacting to.

If this works for you, I'm very happy. But I'd have to see it to believe it.
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2008, 08:26 PM
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ahh, clearly I need a behaviourist, I have a theory that Buster's DA is very much an ingrained fear agression.
I have seen him on leash and offleash with other dogs, onleash he will attack them if they get too close, offleash he is dominant but generally good. I have walked him offleash with other dogs following us 2 metres behind and he has ignored them, onleash I have to physically drag him. So i'm thinkign maybe he feels restricted, like he can't get away onleash?

When he was young, I can think of atleast 2 run-in's with other dogs that might have started it, both of them he was onleash. The first was when another puppy, slightly olde thasn him chaged us form across the road and pushed him down, he barked at it and it ran home, the other we were down watchign a boat race with our 3 when he was young, someone came down with 2 roti's and a kelpie, all offleash, not under control and the rotties were very dominant and started trying to pick fights.
The owners got told where to go.

But I didn't fix it, I didn't make sure he met lots of other dogs.

The only 2 dogs he's met on leash and not tried to attack have been a small fluffy that approached him right after a fight he had with a dog that charged him on his walk. He just sat and let it sniff him all over while ignoring it, this I still don't understand. The other was when I was at the beach with him, a female foxy approached him. He strained but no really agro signs came out of him. He just pulled up and touched noses with her then she went back to her owner.

So maybe "focus" really won't do any good if his DA is fear based?
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  #13  
Old 03-29-2008, 08:42 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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"Focus" would do more good if it's fear based than if it's otherwise.

Basically you'll be teaching your dog that when he's scared, he can look to you and good things will happen.

You can try it, but I think it's going to be so difficult it won't be realistically possible. But I don't mind if you proove me wrong.

One main theme of "Click to Calm" is to teach dogs new associations with scary things. Every time your dog looks at another dog, he gets a click/treat. He can look and be scared, but he still gets c/t, as long as he doesn't react, although hopefully you'll click fast enough that he won't have time to react before looking to you for a treat. Eventually, after lots of practice, he'll look at dogs because he knows he's getting a treat for it - so you've changed his emotion from fear to anticipation of a treat.
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mrose_s View Post
The only 2 dogs he's met on leash and not tried to attack have been a small fluffy that approached him right after a fight he had with a dog that charged him on his walk. He just sat and let it sniff him all over while ignoring it, this I still don't understand.
I think that part of the reason why he was ok with this dog was because he downloaded his stress with the dog he met previously. He had a "fight" with the previous dog, which relieved all his tension and stress, which probably felt pretty good for him. Then when he met the small fluffy later, he had a lot less of the stored up tension and stress to release, since he already released it.

I noticed this with my dog reactive terrier mix. That initially she would do all the behaviors of the dog reactive/aggressive dog. It would start with the whining at first, then if left unchecked it would escalate, ultimately to redirected aggression on the handler. That handler was me by the way I've got a few battle scars as reminders. But once she was able to unload her tension, she would relax and settle down. Let's just say we've come a LONG way since those days. To help her, all of my focus and attention was based on changing her emotional state.

So I totally agree with Lizzybeth about changing his emotional state. That's really the key. Once you do that, then you have access to changing his behavior as well.

Along those lines, something that I'd like to suggest, and this may sound counter intuitive, but try praising him when he gets fearful or seems to be feeling stressed. This can also work to change his emotional state, so he'll be more ready to respond to your input and direction. It may only change his emotional state for a brief moment, but that moment will give you a window to redirect him into more positive things, like the clicker training, or chasing you, or whatever else will help redirect his attention. Not only that, but it will also increase his attraction to you, rather than using physical corrections to try to dissuade him from the behavior, which will only create more conflict for him. Again, it sounds counter intuitive, but if the goal is ultimately to redirect him and change his emotional state into something more positive, then do whatever works, right? Whatever works meaning whatever that's positive that works and isn't going to cause other behavior problems later on.
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2008, 10:14 AM
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I have a young sheltie that would lunge and bark at other dogs and people. I tried the "watch me" and corrections but I was doing things wrong and she was getting herself into a frenzy.

I hired a behaviourist and she had us doing things totally opposite. FIrst I had to give her treats everytime she saw something that made her react so eventually she would associate these things with something good. If she went to bark, I just kept stuffing treats in her mouth so she couldn't bark. Then after a couple of weeks, we did look/look back. I told her to look at the person (we were a very good distance away)and then I clicked. When she looked back at me, I gave her a treat.

I did this for everything---people, buses, fast cars, people, snowblowers, kids etc. She clued in very quick. If she looked at something (no matter how short the look was--even a glance without reacting got a click) and looked at me she got a treat.

Now we can go past people shovelling snow ( but we are still across the street)and we actually walked passed some kids playing basketball in their driveway. I told her in a happy voice to look. When she did, I c/t. If she seems pretty calm, I'll have her sit and we'll watch the problem for maybe a minute or even less. I c/t every time she looked.

We are making great progress Somethings still set her off, but I am enjoying our walks alot more now.

The Control Unleashed is a great book.
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  #16  
Old 03-30-2008, 10:23 AM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Great job, cinnamon! That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Glad it worked!
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2008, 12:58 PM
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OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inspector16 View Post
I think that part of the reason why he was ok with this dog was because he downloaded his stress with the dog he met previously. He had a "fight" with the previous dog, which relieved all his tension and stress, which probably felt pretty good for him. Then when he met the small fluffy later, he had a lot less of the stored up tension and stress to release, since he already released it.
Actually, chances are, after he went so FAR over threshold with the other dog, he was far too stimulated to even react to the next one. Some dogs need a day or two to fully recover from a bad incident.
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  #18  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:46 PM
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Actually, chances are, after he went so FAR over threshold with the other dog, he was far too stimulated to even react to the next one. Some dogs need a day or two to fully recover from a bad incident.
Good point
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2008, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post
Umm, WHAT??

You're putting a reactive dog in a sit/stay WHILE she's being reactive, and then walking away?? Did I read that right?? And she stays while you walk away, even though you cannot get her to look at you??

If I tried that with my dog, first of all, no amount of leash correction would work to get her attention, much less make her responsive to a sit/stay. And if I tried to walk away, she'd just run to the dog she's reacting to.

If this works for you, I'm very happy. But I'd have to see it to believe it.
Yes. Because like I said in that post, I don't need her to look at me for her to listen. When I say sit, it means sit.

But I am not letting go of the lead. She's on a 6ft lead and I put her in a sit/stay, then walk a bit ahead of her and call her to me. It's distracting her because she's listening to me.

Quote:
Along those lines, something that I'd like to suggest, and this may sound counter intuitive, but try praising him when he gets fearful or seems to be feeling stressed. This can also work to change his emotional state, so he'll be more ready to respond to your input and direction.
Definitely agree. I did this with Lizzie in the beginning, because she was reacting out of fear (from previous experiences. And I'll just say this now, her reactivity wasn't extreme, she would pull at the lead trying to get to the other dog, but rarely would she growl at him/her or act out terribly agressive) so I would very calmly reassure her I was with her backing her up, and there was no reason to be fearful. It did help!

I guess it's more of a process I went through, boosting her confidence a TON, then bringing down her level of reactivity through corrections.

It may not work for some, but it worked for me.
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  #20  
Old 03-31-2008, 06:17 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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And I'll just say this now, her reactivity wasn't extreme, she would pull at the lead trying to get to the other dog, but rarely would she growl at him/her or act out terribly agressive.
Oh, well that helps explain it.

From what the OP was describing, though (vocalizing, etc.), I don't think her dog would respond to a sit cue, much less a stay cue. In fact, I don't know of many reactive, even mildly reactive, dogs who would. Sounds like you got lucky.
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