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  #11  
Old 02-12-2008, 03:56 PM
Gempress Gempress is offline
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HUGE barf! Seriously! Of even show-quality puppies and dogs, HOW many are actually competing in the show ring at four months old??

Whoever drafted this bill knew absolutely nothing about dogs.
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  #12  
Old 02-12-2008, 04:25 PM
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Gemp, they'd just need a valid breeding license for the puppies.. never mind showing..
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2008, 04:33 PM
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Darn it. I shouldnt have spayed emma! Then i could get a piece of paper from the city of LA, move there and breed beagles. Cuz legal and ethical breeding are the same thing. Right?
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2008, 04:40 PM
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I'm trying to read up a bit more. One article said that dogs "aspiring to the show ring" could be kept intact (I suppose as long as you say your pup is "show quality", you can keep him intact. ).

But I'm having a surprisingly hard time finding the exact text of the law. Lots of blogs and articles, but not much more. Can somebody find that? I'm very curious.
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:07 PM
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The ordinance. Clicky.
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  #16  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:14 PM
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Blue, the link bumped me to their homepage. Weird.

Quote:
File Number
07-1212
Last Changed Date
02/07/2008
Title
MANDATE SPAYING AND NEUTERING / CATS AND DOGS / FOUR MONTHS OLD
Initiated by
Alarcon / Cardenas Mover 2007 / Hahn for Wesson, Jr.
Subject
Motion - Each year, almost 50,000 unwanted and abandoned cats and dogs are born in the City of Los Angeles. Left un-spayed and un-neutered, these animals propagate far beyond the capacity of the local shelters, animal rescue groups and the community to accommodate them. Shelters are often forced to euthanize young and healthy animals to make room for more; puppies and kittens are euthanized at the highest rate, twice as many cats than dogs. The financial cost to taxpayers, and the emotional toll suffered by shelter employees and the communities who take care of these animals are extremely high.
The California State Legislature is currently considering AB 1634 (Levine) also known as the "California Healthy Pets Act 2007" requiring the spaying and neutering of most cats and dogs by the time the pet is four months old. Pet owners who have not spayed or neutered their pet would be cited and given time to spay or neuter their pets before a fine would be assessed. Local animal control agencies would be responsible for enforcing the California Healthy Pets Act. A portion of the fines collected would be used to expand the availability of free or low cost-spay or neuter programs and other outreach efforts.
The City Council, on April 17, 2007 adopted a resolution in support of AB 1634. However, the City should not wait for Sacramento to act on the pending legislation and instead should take a more proactive stance by adopting an ordinance with the provisions of the California Healthy Pets Act customized for Los Angeles.
Currently, the City of Los Angeles Animal Services Department maintains a budget of $22 million and it is estimated that $12 million of that money is used by pets that end up dying. The Department also offers $2.2 million in vouchers for spaying and neutering services for low income pet owners.
THEREFORE MOVE THAT THE CITY COUNCIL, instruct the Los Angeles Animals Services Department, to submit a proposed ordinance that would mandate the spaying and neutering of domestic cats and dogs by the time the pet is four months old, with specific exceptions for licensed breeders. The proposed ordinance should be consistent with provisions of AB 1634 but adapted to the specific needs of Los Angeles, including an expanded program to assist pet owners earning less than 300% of the Federal Poverty Level spay and neuter their pets.
REFER TO COUNCIL FILE 07-0002-S65
Date Received
04/18/2007
File History
4-18-07 - This day's Council session
4-18-07 - Ref to Public Safety Committee
4-18-07 - File to Public Safety Committee Clerk
5-9-07 - Council Action - Continued to May 11, 2007
5-11-07 - Council Action - Motion ADOPTED (Public Safety Committee waived consideration of the above matter)
5-16-07 - File in files
6-18-07 - For ref - Communication from the Department of Animal Services, dated June 12, 2007, relative to directing the City Attorney to prepare an ordinance amending the LAMC to mandate the spaying and neutering of domestic cats, dogs, and rabbits by the time the pet is four months old, with specific exception for licensed breeders, to be consistent with the provisions of Assembly Bill 1634 but adapted to the specific needs of Los Angeles.
6-20-07 - Ref to Public Safety Committee
6-20-07 - File to Public Safety Committee Clerk
7-30-07 - For ref - Communication from the Department of Animal Services, dated July 26, 2007, relative to directing the City Attorney to draft an ordinance amending the LAMC Section 53.00, et. seq., to allow the Department of Animal Services to spay or neuter any animals taken in or subject to enforcement and to require microchipping of any animal to obtain a valid breeding permit and to strengthen breeding and transfer regulation, and other related enabling modifications.
7-31-07 - Ref to Public Safety Committee - to Committee Clerk
8-21-07 - Communication from Dr. Patty Boge, Narbonne Animal Clinic, dated August 15, 2007, relative to the mandatory spay/neuter law, is attached to Council file.
8-14-07 - Council Action - Referred to Public Safety Committee
8-24-07 - File to Public Safety Committee Clerk
12-21-07 - For ref - Transmittal from the Mayor of the Department of Animal Services report, dated November 26, 2007, relative to drafting an ordinance amending the Los Angeles Municipal Code (LAMC) 53.15.2 to add a required animal transfer permit and related regulations.
12-26-07 - Ref to Public Safety Committee - to Committee Clerk
1-24-08 - For ref - Communication from Councilmember Richard Alarcon, dated January 24, 2008, relative to the strong support of the ordinance which Mandates the Spaying and Neutering of Domestic Cats and Dogs.
1-24-08 - Ref to Public Safety Committee - to Committee Clerk
1-28-08 - Speaker cards, dated January 28, 2008, submitted in Public Safety Committee - attached to file.
1-28-08 - Communication from Animal Services Department, dated January 28, 2008, submitted in Public Safety Committee - attached to file.
1-28-08 - Communication from the City Attorney, dated January 28, 2008, submitted in Public Safety Committee - attached to file.
1-30-08 - For ref - Communication from the City Attorney R08-0028, dated January 29, 2008, relative to a draft ordinance amending Los Angeles Municipal Code (LAMC) Section 53.15.2 (b) by adding new Subdivisions (2) through (8), which would require all dogs and cats in the City of Los Angeles over four months of age to be spayed or neutered unless exempted as provided in the ordinance.
1-31-08 - Communications from the public, dated January 31, 2008, relative to the mandatory spay/neuter/micro-chipping of pet dogs and cats - attached to file.
1-31-08 - Communications from the public, dated January 31, 2008, relative to the mandatory spay/neuter/micro-chipping of pet dogs and cats - attached to file.
1-31-08 - Communications from the public, dated January 31, 2008, relative to the Spay/Neuter Ordinance - attached to file.
1-31-08 - Ref to Public Safety Committee - to Committee Clerk
2-6-08 - Communication from the public, dated February 6, 2008, relative to the Spay/Neuter Ordinance - attached to file.
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:20 PM
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Thats what I get for not checking that the clicky worked.
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  #18  
Old 02-12-2008, 05:25 PM
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Another law that will affect responsible owners and have no affect on irresponsible owners.

To support a legislation that does not take into consideration the long term health and behavioral effects of juvenile spay/neuter (as there are nowhere near enough studies done to support it beyond population control) shows a lack of concern that I find abhorrent.

Preliminary studies have shown that early spay/neuter increases a canines chances of developing bone cancer, an increase in long bone growth which adds to an increase in AC problems etc... as well as, for females specifically, an increase in aggressive tendencies.

The influence of hormones on a growing animal are very important and to make a law without a much more detailed examination of the possible results of such surgery is irresponsible.

The CHOICE to spay or neuter should be an informed decision between an owner and their Vet. Each animal is an individual and what may work for one will not necessarily work for another. This law removes the ability of dog owners to make the proper choice for their dogs health based on the disputable "fact" that it will decrease shelter population. Unfortunately, many don't seem to realize that this legislation will create a "black market" for puppies and it will not increase the adoption rate of adult dogs from shelters.

The cost of enforcing this will be astronomical and many pets will not receive vet care, shots etc due to owners refusing to comply.

Again, no forethought is being shown by those with an agenda.
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2008, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
*gasp* That's brilliant, Sharky! And here I thought those tendencies over the years meant that something was wrong with me, now I realize that it was my inner conscience guiding me in the right direction towards being the perfect animal lover! Score!

Oh no, plenty of people have had the same idea. In fact, many of them are associated with AR or radical enviromentalists. After all, killing most or all of the human population would mean all the little animals would be happy. Or perhaps we should just stop breeding . . . not have fewer kids, but none at all. I've heard that proposed.

My favorite was the head of PETA saying that having a "purebred" human baby was the same sort of conceit as having a purebred dog, and immoral. Note, she did not mean a non-mixed race baby. In fact, I'm not quite sure WHAT she meant, but it was really, really disturbing. It was either having children (any children) is immoral, or we should all be humping chimpanzees, which seems a little extreme.

Then there are those who just propose killing the human population . .. a nice genetically engineered plague perhaps . . .

So, I'm afraid your great idea is not an original one. But you have company.
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  #20  
Old 02-13-2008, 07:31 AM
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WOW what a colossally stupid idea.
You can't compete in most agility competitions till your dog is a year and a half, and all agility venues call for over a year. You can't compete in obedience until your dog is 6 months. You can't race your sighthound (here anyway.. don't know about other venues) until the dog is a year. And these are MINIMUM ages. I know of many agility dogs that are NOT ready until they are even older than this. WOW seems like you want to rush things.

So how are you supposed to prove at 4 months you are going to do these things. What is to stop people who say..ya I will want to do agility with this dog? And this is no ban for puppymills, so how is this going to help the pet over population issues? Oh Wait, I forgot your lawyer won't let you answer questions.......

So hmm maybe someone else can answer these for me

(btw I don't care if people breed mixed dogs for a specific purpose ie flyball, as long as they are doing so ethically and the breeders are responsible for the dogs they produce for LIFE)
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