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Old 02-02-2008, 03:44 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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A lot of it IS in perceptions.

Like Grace's Eve, I've even had people assume that Kharma's timid . . . LMFAO! Because she doesn't allow them to touch her, her tail is held like Grace describes, her head is slightly down and her ears are slightly back. For her, that's in wary mode - and can morph to stalk mode in a nano second. Got nothing to do with timid.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

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Old 02-02-2008, 04:53 PM
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Lizmo Lizmo is offline
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
No, not focused on the sheep, but they should be focused on the handler, and not on what is going on around them.

As for friendly, yes, it's critical that a puppy's parents be friendly, but they don't need to be warm and fuzzy with a stranger, they need to accept a stranger ~ as in not coming out looking to take me to the ground nor running from me. They don't need to enjoy petting from a stranger ~ or even from the owner. Many dogs don't enjoy petting.

Okay, maybe I didn't explain it right. When I think trial, a trial is 2+ days long for most working dogs that trial often. Do I expect a dog to be focused on handler the whole time they are away at the trial? No. The handler should mentally prepare the dog before the trial so that the dog can (this is probably not a very good way to explain this) "go into that mode" per se. I know one of the top handler's of Working Border Collies - he'll take his dogs for an easy walk to let the dog's muscles warm up about 8 runs before their turn. Then let the dog watch a run or two. Then they wait till their turn.

This doesn't go for just trials. The dog should be ready work or able to sit in the handler's lap to wait on his turn at a clinic. All the good working BC people I've seen are able to do this - as it should be.

No, by any means did I mean they need to be "warm and fuzzy" like a Golden or Lab. Here's a good example:

I was at a clinic recently and a lady had her stockdog - only about a year old - out sitting in her lap, right beside the fencing leading into the field where the sheep were. The dog was going around greeting people being submissive and cuddly. Just looking to be petted. The dog walks over to me so I start petting him and talking to him. He loved it. But then his owner called him over for his turn on stock. Just like that, he went into "herding mode", and in my very newbie opinion, was one of the best dogs their that day.

If I'm going to a trial to see potient parents of my pup, I want that dog to be able to be a great stockdog, but just as fast "turn off" (for lack of a better word) when his run is over.

IMO, stockdogs DO need to see petting as a good thing. Something that means "Yes, I've done what my handler wanted" in combination with getting the sheep.

Okay, I'm sorry, Amstaffer, I totally hijacked your thread I'm bowing out.

l ~Jennifer~ l
l Handler for Team Blazin' l Photographer at Joy Photography l Nikon D40X with 35mm 1.8 Nikkor Lens l
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Old 02-02-2008, 06:00 PM
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Jennifer, I totally see where you're coming from, but it's my opinion that it isn't a bad thing for a working stockdog to be aloof. The most important part of the trial is the work, not the socialization. If you think about it, the Border Collie is bred with a job to do on a farm, and it really didn't matter much if the dog was friendly or aloof - as long as it worked well and tolerated handling when it needed to be handled. That's why you have such a wide variety of temperaments in this breed!

I have a preference for friendly Border Collies because, honestly, with all the snotty BYB BC's out there, good press for your breed is much easier to achieve with a personable dog. And I personally wouldn't want a stockdog with a foul attitude. But I wouldn't discount an aloof dog just because it's not interested in strangers. That dog can still be a tremendous worker.
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Old 02-02-2008, 06:43 PM
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Blaze well socilaized liek crazy as a puppy. But being his breed they are not as social as other breeds. Offocurse some can be overly friendly. I am still working on him at 5 years old. He still wont just walk up to a stranger. But he wont just run away either. But he is very shy. he opens up easily and quickly. but the first few mins he is veryyy shy.
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:48 PM
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fillyone fillyone is offline
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I haven't read all the posts so might be repeating something, but shouldn't any well bred dog not be timid?
Aloof perhaps but never timid.
Dante 8 year old GSD
Kaos v Wolfstraum 1 year old GSD
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:08 AM
DanL DanL is offline
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Being wary of strangers isn't being shy. Gunnar is wary of strangers but he's most definitely not shy. He has that aloofness that is a breed trait of the GSGD. If a stranger comes into my house, like a repairman, he won't even greet them, but he'll watch them the entire time they are in the house. When people he knows come over, they will get a brief greeting, and then he's back to doing what he was doing. He will play ball with people he knows though.

Heavy socialization is done with many herding dogs because it's their nature to be suspicious. You have a GSD who hasn't been socialized, he's going to be more defensive of things he thinks are his, like his family and property. Socialization teaches them that not everyone is a threat.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:08 AM
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HoundedByHounds HoundedByHounds is offline
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I do think some breeds are more like to notice things, and have a more firmly established "personal bubble" and if that is breached they have reactions from aggro to backing up quickly.

IMO the perceived timidity of a dog is directly linked to how aware, alert, and reactive they are. If they are in a constant state to receive visual or auditory stimulus that can make them seemingly more jumpy.

Phlegmatic breeds, not prone to react much....tend to appear staid and calm to outsiders.

IMO the entire Terrier group is comprised of bold, forward going breeds.
Gina H.
"Run with the dogs, Suburbia"-Pet Shop Boys
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:29 PM
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Rosefern Rosefern is offline
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Flicka is very outgoing, very friendly with all people - which is a golden trait. They should be friendly, outgoing, and bold.

Pepe, on the other hand, is not "shy" per se, he's just aloof. He doesn't really care if he gets to go say hello to every stranger we meet. He knows who matters to him, and he loves them to death. The rest of the world can just go to h*ll. He's not timid by any means - he just honestly doesn't really care.

Rosefern is trying to take life one day at a time...

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