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  #11  
Old 01-30-2008, 09:58 PM
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I totally, completely agree with Dekka & Grace.

Like Dekka said, the actions of the people being "attacked" (which is a very subjective word) should be taken into account, as well as the severity of the attack. If a dog chases down a random person and causes serious harm to them, for no apparent reason, I would probably feel safer if such a dog were euthanized.

But if a dog in his yard was being chased by a neighbor with a shovel, and nipped him on the calf out of fear/defense, just enough to leave a bruise, well... I think the person chasing the dog should be punished. But, of course not. A dog being hit with a shovel should never attempt to act to protect himself, that is absolutely preposterous!
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2008, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Miakoda View Post
(Maybe I'm not talking about the same things here, so help me out if I'm off base.)
the page i'm on is, what if you and your dog are *not* breaking the law? i'm not talking about dogs who are roaming loose (imo, they need to hold those owners accountable BEFORE the dogs attack somebody).

maybe i've got a persecution complex. and an overactive imagination.
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2008, 07:11 AM
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Well, I don't think he's saying that loose dogs have to be destroyed. Just that "my dog got loose" is not an excuse if he/she hurts someone.

That aside, I'm torn on this. Air bites and noninjury bites are often self defense from dogs. And often the act of a dog that is NOT vicious, that's why it didn't hurt you.

On the other hand, laws have to be written so that people who do not know dogs can enforce them. They have to be written so that they can be enforced effeciently and cheaply. IMO there should be a behaviorist on staff with every Animal Control . . . I also realize that AC is often flat broke as it is.

Here's the problem. I know that an air bite or a non injury bite is often the act of a non dangerous dog acting in defense. But it can also be the act of a dangerous dog who, bluntly, missed. I trust myself to be able to half way tell the difference. I trust a behaviorist to be able to. But I realize that most people can't . . . ESPECIALLY if they didn't see it happen.

On the other hand, I also realize that a dog can be exremely dangerous without biting, and the first bite can kill someone. I've seen dogs break out of their yards and charge, snarling, after people, ears forward, lips forward, with pretty obviously violent intent. How do you handle those? The only reason no one was hurt was because they got over a fence, into a car, or into a house before the dog got them.

Its going to be very hard to write a law that handles the complexities of dog behavior that can be enforced by people who don't know dogs and didn't themself see what happened.

Perhaps we need a one bite law with an appeal . . .if there were extenuating circumstances, you can appeal, call witnesses, call in a behaviorist . . . or perhaps plea bargain for a muzzle and increased restraints.

But what I do agree with is that irresponsible owners, with dogs that are not properly contained, that are improperly socialized and often slightly nutty from poor breeding, are the real cause of BSL (that and the dog fighters). These people are making life miserable for other dog owners, not to mention the victims of their dogs. They should be punished. But moreover, we do need SOME way to try and prevent these things before they happen . . and it has to be some way that can be easily enforced.
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2008, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Ok what about this incident (this happened to me) I was out in my yard with my dog, a Dalmation. She was perimeter trained (now that I know more about dogs I wouldn't have let her be out there with me) I was doing some gardening stuff for my mom when all of a sudden I here Bali alert bark. There is a person with a little white dog on a flexi lead, the little white dog is now in the middle of our front yard peeing on one of our trees. Bali rushed over and grabbed the little dog by a front let. The woman starts screaming and yanks her dog back. Bali is dragged too, now my dog is holding onto her dog on the sidewalk. I get over there a second later tell Bali to stop, and she does. We did pay the bill for the little dog to go to the vet. But really the bite happened on my yard, and the damage was caused by dragging her dog with my dog holding it. (there was no punctures but an injury)
I'm astonished you paid for the vet bill.... that was kind of you. There's no way in hell I would have paid it. She was the one that injured her dog.. not you, and not your dog.
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2008, 08:02 AM
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It was to prevent them from going through animal control. It would be hard to prove that the damage was due to her hauling her dog with mine attached. And there was the fact that at the end, there was Bali hanging on to her dog with her teeth on public property.

I find AC people don't care WHY your dog did something, just that they did it.
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  #16  
Old 01-31-2008, 08:02 AM
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i agree with RD... Pet owners should be responsible for their pets....

Last edited by chanda; 01-31-2008 at 08:03 AM. Reason: typo error
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2008, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by chanda View Post
i agree with BL... Pet owners should be responsible for their pets....
I don't dissagree at all.

But I do think the circumstance should be taken into account. Why are dogs supposed to have more self control and lack of self preservation than humans?

I think ALL humans should be responsible for their own actions, as well as responsible for their dogs.

If some person sticks their hand through a fence and whacks a strange dog on the nose, and it nips them... I really think it is unfair to blame the owner of the dog. Common sense people, its called common sense.
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2008, 01:47 PM
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I'm with Dekka.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2008, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I don't dissagree at all.

But I do think the circumstance should be taken into account. Why are dogs supposed to have more self control and lack of self preservation than humans?

I think ALL humans should be responsible for their own actions, as well as responsible for their dogs.

If some person sticks their hand through a fence and whacks a strange dog on the nose, and it nips them... I really think it is unfair to blame the owner of the dog. Common sense people, its called common sense.
Exactly.

Unfortunately, the kind of idiot that will provoke a dog like that is also the kind of idiot that will cry to the police if the dog reacts. So I think if you're holding dog owners accountable for their dog's actions, you should also hold other people accountable for not deliberately provoking (or allowing their dog to provoke) a dog that is under the control of its owner.
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2008, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I don't dissagree at all.

But I do think the circumstance should be taken into account. Why are dogs supposed to have more self control and lack of self preservation than humans?

I think ALL humans should be responsible for their own actions, as well as responsible for their dogs.

If some person sticks their hand through a fence and whacks a strange dog on the nose, and it nips them... I really think it is unfair to blame the owner of the dog. Common sense people, its called common sense.

Here it is against the law to tease, torment or bait a dog not belonging to yourself... its considered cruelty and its under our cruelty to animals laws
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