Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Dog Breeds


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-04-2008, 04:06 PM
Sapphire-Light's Avatar
Sapphire-Light Sapphire-Light is offline
woof!
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,309
Default Differences in Bouvier des flandres and black russian terrier?

What's the Differences in Bouvier des flandres and black russian terrier?

They look a like, but the hair in the bouvier looks thicker and more harsh than the russian.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-04-2008, 04:40 PM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Yikes, I'm not really familiar enough with the two breeds to give a good answer. But the two are more different than they are alike. The BRT originated as a Russian Military dog, the bouvier originated as a cattle dog and general farm dog. They are both used in protection. I think the BRT's coat is more wiry than the bouv.

The BRT is also more square ~ there's a little bit of a roundness to the angles of a bouv. I find it harder to distinguish between a BRT and a giant schnauzer ~ I had just learned how to tell them apart when I stopped seeing BRT's *sigh*.

BRT's are more aloof than bouv's, and of course the bouv has the "bouvier bounce" *sigh*, someday I will own a bouvier.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-05-2008, 06:57 AM
DanL's Avatar
DanL DanL is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,881
Default

I'm not familiar with the BRT but I was told we had a couple come down to the working dog club before I joined and they washed out. Apparently they are suffering the same issues many working line dogs have, where their working ability is getting watered down by breeding for show traits.

The one guy who's house we train at has 2 Bouvs, and they are hard, hard dogs from European lines. Especially the male, I think he'd bite you just for the sake of doing it. The female is more approachable but they are both highly defensive and territorial dogs.

Another new guy has a Bouv pup from European lines who is about 5-6 months old now. He's a fun ball of fluff right now, but they are slow to mature (especially males) and he's way behind the GSD who is the same age in how they are being trained. They say that around 10 months old, it'll be like a switch is flipped on with him.

The Bouvs have very soft fur.

Here's a couple pics of them:
Bear, the female

Rock, the male


Who would try and test this guy? Not me!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-05-2008, 07:06 AM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL View Post
I'm not familiar with the BRT but I was told we had a couple come down to the working dog club before I joined and they washed out. Apparently they are suffering the same issues many working line dogs have, where their working ability is getting watered down by breeding for show traits.
The Bouv is suffering also from a lot of bad breeding, and where the BRT may be losing some of it's original working abilities and drives, the bouv is losing his courage ~ there are way too many bouvs out there with unstable temperaments. That's the reason I don't own one ~ I'm not sufficiently knowlegable about the breeds to know where to find a good one.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-05-2008, 07:10 AM
BRTLover
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
I'm not familiar with the BRT but I was told we had a couple come down to the working dog club before I joined and they washed out. Apparently they are suffering the same issues many working line dogs have, where their working ability is getting watered down by breeding for show traits.
You could not be any more correct with this statement! Very few people work their BRT's anymore as they were intended to be worked.
I have two here; mind you both pups but Krosha is soft; gentle; show dog; where as Cracker is totally different {more russian lines in her} hard, a firecracker, stubborn, mouthy!

I do not know much about the Bouvier so I will not pretend too!

However the Black Russian Terrier's main contributor to their creation was the Airedale and Giant Schnauzer! {now if only I could spell} The rottweiler was also very important in creating the BRT!



Quote:
The Black Russian Terrier is a large and powerful dog, a loyal companion that is highly intelligent and dominant in nature. Affectionately known as the "Russian Pearl," the breed was developed in Russia in the 1950s from selected crosses of the Giant Schnauzer, Rottweiler, Newfoundland, Airedale Terrier and Ovcharka. The result was an unpretentious, highly trainable dog capable of working in various climatic conditions, with a coat that requires regular grooming. Black Russian Terriers can be excellent and reliable companions with proper socialization and obedience training, but this is not a dog for the first time dog owner.
Taken from Westminster site
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-05-2008, 07:11 AM
BRTLover
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

BLAKC RUSSIAN TERRIER according to the FCI who considers this a working breed which was it's intent!

Quote:
Country of Origin: Russia



General Appearance

The Black Russian Terrier is medium-large, strong, with large bones, ant well developed muscles. The coat is thick and slightly wavy, but not curb or hanging. Typical for the breed is that he is reserved with strangers, but not aggressive. He has strong endurance and acclimates wry well to any o, climate and environment, plus he is very easy to train. The males are stronger, more powerful and compact than the bitches.

Head
The forehead should be long and fairly broad. The cheeks should be rounded. Skull should be flat with a slight stop. The muzzle should be well*filled, narrowing slightly toward and nose and be slightly shorter than the forehead. The ears and beard give the head a square shape. The lips should be thick and meaty. The lips should be tight on upper jaw. Faults: Course, too heavy, or too fine a head. Wrong shaped head too short, too long, or snipey muzzle.

Eyes
The eyes should be small, almond shaped and as dark brown as possible.

Ears
The ears should be small, V*Shaped, and set high. They are pendant and the inner side touch the cheeks. Faults: Very lowest ears or ears standing up.

Bite
Scissor bite. Bite should be even with big white, close set and even teeth . Faults: Small teeth, teeth sitting far apart, or uneven teeth. Any bite other than scissor bite. Two or more missing teeth.

BODY

Neck
Neck should be long, powerful, dry and carried high.

Chest
The chest should be wide and deep with well sprung ribs reach to the elbow or slightly below. Faults. Too wide chest or too narrow or flat chest.

Underline
Slight tuck-up

Withers
Withers should be set high and distinct from topline.

Topline
Back should be strong, wide, and muscular. Faults: Saggy topline or topline that is not straight.

Croup
Croup should be short, wide muscular, and slightly round.

Fore And Hindquarters

Legs
Front legs, seen from front , or dog should be straight and parallel. Elbows lying close to chest. Pasterns straight and short. Back leg, seen from behind. Should be straight parallel, and slightly wider set than the front legs. Loins should be well developed and muscular, thigh should be long and hock, well marked. Rear angulation no more than a Giant Schnauzer.

Feet
Feet should be big, close, and round. Duck feet are a big fault.

Tail
Should be set high and be thick and cropped short (3-4 joints left). It should stand straight up, slightly bowed forward is OK.

Gait
He should move freely, with an elegant and easy gait. A short trot and gallop is characteristic for the breed. When trotting, front and rear legs are parallel.

Coat
Topcoat should be wiry, strong, thick and close. Undercoat should be thick and thick. Coat should have a slight wave and cover the entire dog with an approximate length of 2*8 inches. He should have a beard, eyebrows. and heavy coat around the neck. A softer coat is permissible on show dogs when coat gets groomed regularly.


Color
Black and ashen gray. Never brown. Fault: White anywhere except a small white spot on the chest.

Size
Males 26 to 28.5", Females 25 to 27.5". Faults: Males over 29.5". or under 25.5". Females over 28.5" or under 25". Females may be slightly longer than males.

Character
The Black Russian Terrier should have a sound character with strong nerves, but with a rather high sharpness. He is lively with strong reactions to outside irritations. He should never be insecure or lack confidence, or be nasty. He is reserved and suspicious around strangers.

Disqualifying Faults
Any bite other than scissor bite. Two or more missing teeth. Uneven color. White feet or white spots on head. Gray color.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-05-2008, 07:15 AM
BRTLover
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Excellent link with information and probably this lady is the most influential breeder in North America. She use to train working BRTs in Russian before coming to Canada.

http://www.black-russian-terrier.ca/about_breed.htm

Also information here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Russian_Terrier

My breeders who I co own my two with's website which is packed with information and links to more information. Also a very very friendly knowledgeable person so she would be happy to answer any questions.

http://www.izteremka.com/
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-05-2008, 07:17 AM
BRTLover
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
The Bouv is suffering also from a lot of bad breeding, and where the BRT may be losing some of it's original working abilities and drives, the bouv is losing his courage ~ there are way too many bouvs out there with unstable temperaments. That's the reason I don't own one ~ I'm not sufficiently knowlegable about the breeds to know where to find a good one.
I have heard this but personally do not know and therefore did not want to speak out of turn!

Actually what has happened to the BRTs might be compared to what has taken place with the german shepherds and rottweilers
Going more for the show and losing the working!

My breeder is hoping to slowly bring some working ability back into the BRTs!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-05-2008, 07:25 AM
BRTLover
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

BRT's must be brushed several times a week in order to prevent their coats from matting up. They are a high maintenance dog when it comes to care. They require baths much more often then a normal dog as well!

BRT's are very slow to mature both mentally and physically. Often they do not achieve their full potential and full working abilities until the age of three and often after that!

They are extremely intelligent, easily trained, easily bored and a stubborn streak a mile long.

BRT's do not work for food, toys, and as such many often have a tough time with training. They work much differently then the average working breed.
They work for the sheer joy and love of pleasing the handler. Some people suggest they are difficult to train because of this; however the reason for difficulty is because the dog must bond to the handler.

PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR TAKING OVER THIS THREAD. I JUST LOVE THE BRT THOUGH AND ENJOY SHARING MY VERY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THEM!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-05-2008, 07:30 AM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRTLover View Post
PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR TAKING OVER THIS THREAD. I JUST LOVE THE BRT THOUGH AND ENJOY SHARING MY VERY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THEM!
not at all a problem. i enjoy learning about them.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site