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  #41  
Old 01-27-2008, 01:29 PM
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I think both breeds are beautiful, but I prefer a good coat for outside activities.
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  #42  
Old 01-28-2008, 06:12 AM
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I'll add my comment.

I've been a GSD owner for the last 7 years. I just got my Doberman.

I will agree with the fact that the Doberman is more person oriented. Nyx is already focused on us. She has already managed to figure out that she has *two* people and enjoys that fact. She likes her toys and the other dogs but she will grab a toy and come and flop on us. She can even take naps on the bed at 10 weeks because she is interested in us. She is calm and focused. Its quite fascinating in such a young dog to see that.

Nox, my GSD loves us, he adores us, he is a Velcro dog, but he is more thing oriented. Toys, the other dogs, what is happening now, let him count the cats. He is most spastic in general and he vibrates with energy. You can almost see it pouring off of him. As a puppy he'd start screaming and twitching from sheer excitement at seeing a toy.

The end result is very similar but the dogs are very different. I don't think I'll get another GSD but I can see myself with more then one Doberman.

Also the GSD BLOWS his coat. I wind up using the forced air dryer on him in an attempt to get the coat out quickly. Bleh.
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  #43  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:57 AM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is offline
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I feel they are a smaller boned dog, not for real intense work, their necks look like they might break easily if hit hard enough?'
Dobes are similar in bone and build to Malinois and Dutch Shepherds - is that to say that mals and dutchies aren't good sport dogs either?

Sorry, I hear that a lot, that my breed isn't big and thick enough to be an effective sport dog. I myself do not do bitework with my dogs, but I do take issue with people who say they're ill-suited physically do it.
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  #44  
Old 01-28-2008, 12:16 PM
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For one that does not think a Doberman can be an effective working dog.

Please go here DVG America National Champion List and look at the year 2005.

I happen to know that dog and that handler. My GSD and both of my mothers dog comes from him.

Doberman are excellent working dogs. Just because they are exquisitely beautiful doesn't mean they are functional. As an afghan hound owner I know that my dogs are judges on their hair quality and many people think they can not hunt just because they are lovely to look at.

The two should not be confused.
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  #45  
Old 01-28-2008, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Just because they are exquisitely beautiful doesn't mean they aren't functional.
I fixed it...
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  #46  
Old 01-28-2008, 12:25 PM
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I actually think the gigantic dogs are at a disadvantage compared to the medium-sized, smaller-boned and more athletic working dogs.

I also have to wonder how realistic sport work is compared to actual personal protection. In real life, is a dog honestly going to hit an assailant's conveniently extended arm every time? Are they really going to hit with such force as they would on a padded sleeve on a stationary target?
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  #47  
Old 01-28-2008, 12:37 PM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is offline
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I agree RD - just becuase a dog is small, it doesn't mean that he's not solid.

Ronin is small for a dobe - a little less than 27" at the shoulder and 70lbs... but he's a friggin' tank:
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  #48  
Old 01-28-2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SizzleDog View Post
I fixed it...
Thanks, I was trying to get it out before I went and made lunch.
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  #49  
Old 01-28-2008, 01:10 PM
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Just like many working breeds, there are breeding lines that are better suited for work than others. Not every Doberman can or will work, but if you find the right lines, they can be hard working dogs. We had a woman come to our dog club recently with a 1 year old male Dobe. There was no way he would work. He was fearful and terrified of men. Obviously he had some issues, and obviously there was no way he had the temperament or genetics to work. He was a nice looking dog and all but the mental part just wasn't there. Another girl who I train with has a nice Dobe male who is good sized, very athletic and graceful in his movements, and probably could at least pass the evaluation test for our club.

As far as build goes, our Dane looks like a fragile dog, with her long legs and long neck and thin build. I tell you what, she is one of the strongest dogs I've ever seen. Don't let looks deceive you.

I don't see much difference between medium sized dogs like Mals and some of the GSDs, and the larger dogs like the Bouvs and the bigger GSDs at our club. The smaller dog isn't always quicker and more agile, and can't hit as hard. The male Bouv and Gunnar are both dogs who are larger, but are also fast and agile, and hit like a tank. When you hear a nice thump when one of them hits the decoy, and they drive him to the ground, you know they are hitting hard. I have yet to see the smaller GSD (who is from Czech lines and is a VERY hard dog, but is only 67lbs) or any of the mals do that.

RD, regarding your question about how a protection dog will hit vs a sport dog- a protection dog will hit the center mass of the target. In training the decoy will try and sidestep the dog, so they learn not to fly through the air (what makes a Sch dog look so dramatic), but to slow down a bit, hunker down, and then target the center of the target. That could be the middle of the back, the butt, legs, armpits, whatever is there. That's what they are trained to do. Even if an arm is hanging out, they hit center mass. There is definitely a technique to catching a dog on the sleeve when he's learning to target center mass. You need to absorb the dog into you, as you can injure the dog if you resist him. It only takes one bad catch to jam a dogs neck and put him out of protection training for good.

There are dogs that succeed in Sch who could do real protection work, but not all of them. Sch never really tests a dogs limits. Sch is a choreographed routine. Same thing every time, and the decoys are there to make the dog look good and play them up, not break them down and drive them off the field like a French Ring or PSA decoy tries to do. I would say that ANY dog who can do true protection work can do Sch with an adjustment to training methods- the stability and temperament is there in that kind of dog.
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  #50  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:43 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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But for their original jobs, I think the lighter build is fine.

GSDs (after they became police/military dogs vs sheep herders) have to hit and hold. On the streets it would probably be a very good idea to take the guy to the ground. It favors size and strength to hang on.

The Dobie however, is personal protection. It would seem that for the original breeding by a tax collector, the dog would not have to hold very long, it would be first a deterrent and then allow the owner to escape. You don't need a 90lb GSD or Bouvier to create a big time distraction to the attacker.
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