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  #21  
Old 12-04-2007, 11:42 AM
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Sorry I either interpretted wrong or took my pissy pills this morning and they just wore off LOL. I just cant stand people suddenly blaming the dog. The parents have some responsibility too (shocker in our society today)
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:30 PM
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Sorry I either interpretted wrong or took my pissy pills this morning and they just wore off LOL. I just cant stand people suddenly blaming the dog. The parents have some responsibility too (shocker in our society today)
It's ok, I have mornings like that too . . .

Actually, although society is fast to blame someone, anyone, they seem pretty quick to blame the parents too . . . as long as someone is blamed. If they can blame a dog (which can't defend itself) so much the better. But lacking an animal, they'll blame someone. As long as its not the kid . . . unless of course, the kid has done something 'criminal' at which point they need to be locked up in prison . . . <sigh>

The only time I blame the dog for situations like this is in the very, very rare cases where there is something mentally wrong with the dog. I've encountered one dog that as far as anyone could tell was schizophrenic, or some canine equivalent there of. I've read about Springer rage (and have my suspicions about a certain Springer around here) and other mental/brain/seizure disorders that can simply make a dog crazy. There are a few dogs that really are, by human standards, born bad. But they are a distinct minority . . . and even then, I don't really blame the dog . . . I blame the disease that made them that way. And I don't think that there are entire breeds that are born bad . . . not for everyone, or difficult, sure . . . but bad? No.
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2007, 12:17 PM
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Sydney? As in Syndey, Australia? The country where American Pit Bull Terriers are BANNED? The country that has some of the toughest restrictions getting SBTs into the country because of the law?

Back when I was a child, if one of us got bitten by a dog, the first thing out of my parents' mouths was "What did you do?"
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  #24  
Old 12-08-2007, 12:31 PM
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Sydney? As in Syndey, Australia? The country where American Pit Bull Terriers are BANNED? The country that has some of the toughest restrictions getting SBTs into the country because of the law?

Back when I was a child, if one of us got bitten by a dog, the first thing out of my parents' mouths was "What did you do?"
Yup, Mia . . . and that's still the first thought that runs through my head.
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  #25  
Old 12-09-2007, 08:35 AM
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Sydney? As in Syndey, Australia? The country where American Pit Bull Terriers are BANNED? The country that has some of the toughest restrictions getting SBTs into the country because of the law?

Back when I was a child, if one of us got bitten by a dog, the first thing out of my parents' mouths was "What did you do?"
Yeah, my family too.
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  #26  
Old 12-09-2007, 12:34 PM
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A dog should be socialized, and trained, and should not bite the neighbor children, even if they were sitting on the fence. IF the dog is not a hundred percent with children, they should not live where children are likely to be. OR the fence should be raised to a height of safety and beware of dog signs posted.
ABSOLUTELY.

Blame the owners, not the dog?

It wasn't the owners that bit the chilld..... But yes, they should take responsibility for not training their dog.

But the dog is NOW a liability - blameless or not.
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2007, 12:35 PM
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Sydney? As in Syndey, Australia? The country where American Pit Bull Terriers are BANNED? The country that has some of the toughest restrictions getting SBTs into the country because of the law?
Banned here too - doesn't necessarily mean you couldn't find one if you looked hard enough.
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2007, 12:42 PM
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We had a 6' privacy fence. A 12 pound Terrier. Neighbor kids who poked holes through the wood fence and then poked sticks through and tormented the dog . . . guess what happened when they poked their fingers through?

Fortunately, that was in a time where parents actually believed their little angels WOULD do rotten things and should have to face the consequences.

Dumbest kid I ever saw was the one who lived next door to us when we moved to Tennessee. He'd stand over in his yard and taunt my GSD and throw rocks at him. Didn't matter if we were out there, because his parents thought it was funny.

They didn't think it was so funny when their toddler - who was unsupervised - crawled out in the middle of the road and was sitting there playing. My GSD that they allowed their son to torment relentlessly cleared the fence and went out in the road and brought the baby back, then stood there and kept it from going back into the road and barked until I could get out there.

And they still let their kid tease him THAT is a kid who richly deserved mauling. Fortunately, Purdue was too kid-centric to do it.
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2007, 07:15 PM
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ABSOLUTELY.

Blame the owners, not the dog?

It wasn't the owners that bit the chilld..... But yes, they should take responsibility for not training their dog.

But the dog is NOW a liability - blameless or not.

Yes, God Forbid a parent teach their child that a neighbor's fenced in yard is NOT public territory and should be respected as a boundary. God forbid that the owners of the dog responsibly fenced in their yard to keep their dog from running loose. It's CLEARLY the dogs fault.

I live beside idiots like this. Idiots that despite how many times I've told to stay out of my yard, do not approach Hannah, that Hannah hates them, they STILL come into my yard. I have put myself in front of Hannah when the kids run up to her because I know that Hannah has no tolerance for these two children. I have told the parents. Yet, do you think those kids stay out of my yard? NO.

The dog is not always to blamed. Even the best trained dog is still an animal, and has a breaking point. Children are notorious for pushing buttons, pushing the boundaries. Why? Because they can, because they're "kids" and there are no consequences anymore because people are too scared (or too lazy) to discipline.
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  #30  
Old 12-10-2007, 06:29 AM
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Yes, God Forbid a parent teach their child that a neighbor's fenced in yard is NOT public territory and should be respected as a boundary. God forbid that the owners of the dog responsibly fenced in their yard to keep their dog from running loose. It's CLEARLY the dogs fault.

I live beside idiots like this. Idiots that despite how many times I've told to stay out of my yard, do not approach Hannah, that Hannah hates them, they STILL come into my yard. I have put myself in front of Hannah when the kids run up to her because I know that Hannah has no tolerance for these two children. I have told the parents. Yet, do you think those kids stay out of my yard? NO.

The dog is not always to blamed. Even the best trained dog is still an animal, and has a breaking point. Children are notorious for pushing buttons, pushing the boundaries. Why? Because they can, because they're "kids" and there are no consequences anymore because people are too scared (or too lazy) to discipline.
Often, these situations are complicated. Not always. A child who comes back time and time again to torment a dog, especially after warnings, simply deserves to be bitten. A parent who does not warn their child, especially after observing there is a problem, is a bad parent. An owner who doesn't train their dog to be patient, or to ignore mild provocation (admittedly, sometimes much easier said than done) or, as an alternative, does not keep their dog where it is hard for children to get to, is a bad owner.

We have so few details about this case, that it is hard to judge. We don't know if the dog had ever been a problem before. We don't know if the kid had been a problem before. We don't know what the parents did or did not do, and we don't know what the owner did or did not do.

Sometimes, more than one person is at fault. Sometimes no one is at fault. Sometimes you'll just get a headache trying to figure out who is at fault.

To be sure, the tendancy in some areas (not where I live, thankfully) to fail to teach children that property boundaries are nothing short of sacred is a huge problem. Of course, kids have, and always will, ignore that rule. But I will say I'm not pleased when no one makes the effort in the first place (and I simply scratch my head at neighborhoods that have banned fences of any kind because they "lower property values" . . . I just don't get it).

Kid's fault? Parent's fault? Owner's fault? Probably all of the above.

If this really was an ABPT, then it was illegal to have it in Austrailia. Unless the owner had it prior to the ban, then they were breaking the law when they got the dog. Although BSL is BS, the fact that someone broke the law to get this dog indicates that a) the breeder wasn't a gem of responsibility, and b) the owner wasn't either. That dog was in mortal danger from just existing, and thus should not have existed. This makes me inclined to think this is someone with little respect for the rules, little respect for their dog, and moreover, wanted a pit bull for the 'bad dog' image. So . . . probably not a great owner.

I've discussed the kid above.

I think the parents could well be at fault, I just dislike the kneejerk reaction to blame them.

Or it could be combination there of . . . inattentive parents who did not instruct their child well . . . . child who ignores what warnings he did have and the ditates of common sense, and who might well have been kicking at the dog . . . poorly socialized dog that spent far too much time in the yard, thanks to irresponsible owner.

But, that's speculation.

In your case, Shadowface, I sympathize . . . we have a lady with a Rottie down the street who had the same problem with a certain family.
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