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  #31  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:50 PM
Herschel Herschel is offline
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Do YOU eat any commercially produced meat? Or any meat at all? Wear leather?
No meat. Some leather (shoes), but that's a by-product and if I can find decent shoes without leather I get them.

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My dogs eat what they kill. I don't have to justify it. It just is. Tell the wolf to justify its life. Tell the lion. The insect eating bird. The hawk.
Eating for survival is far different than sending your dog after a squirrel for the thrill of the chase.

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Eat plants? Something dies for you to eat.
Do the plants suffer?

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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Feed your dog any kind of meat at all? Can you justify that by your own standards with which you're so quick to condemn others?
Once again, dogs eat meat for survival. That is different than terrorizing another animal for fun.

I don't know if I agree with Island Dog or not, but I agree with the point that allowing our dogs to scare the sh*t out of other animals for fun is cruel. Yes, we can argue that it is natural for our dogs to chase things, but is it really natural for our dogs to wear fancy collars and be walked on a leash? It isn't about being "natural" or not--it is about animal well-being, whether it pertains to dogs or "lower" species.
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  #32  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:57 PM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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Anything in my yard is fair game. I'll either go outside and shoo it away, or the dogs will chase them away.

You all should see the papillons chasing away deer. It's an amusing sight.

Rose is the most protective thing. Anything in our yard is subject to her. She and Beau will actively go out and track rabbits in the bushes and flush them out. Though Rose did attempt to go after a German Shepherd in our yard. I was a bit nervous about that one. lol

And I do let her kill bugs. She has this bug smashing obsession.

I must be horrible because I don't get in the way of her bug smashing.
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  #33  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:57 PM
Herschel Herschel is offline
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I can understand allowing a dog to chase geese off of a golf course, or ridding other pestilent creatures, but what is the point of allowing a dog to chase a squirrel for fun? Yes, it may be enjoyable for your dog and satisfying for you to watch, but think of the fear that the squirrel must feel. Before anyone says that squirrels don't "feel" fear, then consider the fact that they run for their lives when being chased.

As someone else mentioned, what is the difference between unleashing your dog on a rabbit for fun and someone else letting their dog chase your dog for fun? In both situations, one animal is enjoying itself and the other is suffering.
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  #34  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:59 PM
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Oh I forgot, Nikki has a turtle obsession. But being the herder she is, she thinks it's her job to protect every little creature she finds. She finds little animals fascinating and will obsess over them.
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  #35  
Old 11-13-2007, 11:28 PM
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Island dog Island dog is offline
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Although this is a global forum - cultures come into the equation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat
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  #36  
Old 11-14-2007, 06:46 AM
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So a squirrel is not a pest. HMMMM tell that to my grandfather, barn owners I know, my dad adn any one else with a wood structure. Squirrels knaw on wood thats a fact. They were slowly eating the crossbeam of my grandfathers roof until he cut down the tree near the house due to disease. My barn was constantly being eatten at by squirrels not to mention them actualyl trying to get into my feed room. Just because they are cute and furry and believe me I think they are I used to have a pet squirrel. does not make them any less of a pest. So using the logic that they arent wont work for me.

Rabbits are also pests ask pretty much any farmer and they will agree. They get into your hay, crop and fields. My horse almost fractured his leg again because of a rabbit so thank you very much they are as much a pest as geese. Rabbits also LOVED to live in my barn and when you have dogs, cows, and horses in the barn when they come out someone is very likely to get hurt. I have seen a cow almost trample a dog to get away from a rabbit or a mare try to run over her foal to get away from one.

So unless you have a way to keep them out of all those places then you cant tell me my dog chasing rabbits, squirrels and birds are wrong.
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  #37  
Old 11-14-2007, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
I can understand allowing a dog to chase geese off of a golf course, or ridding other pestilent creatures, but what is the point of allowing a dog to chase a squirrel for fun? Yes, it may be enjoyable for your dog and satisfying for you to watch, but think of the fear that the squirrel must feel. Before anyone says that squirrels don't "feel" fear, then consider the fact that they run for their lives when being chased.

As someone else mentioned, what is the difference between unleashing your dog on a rabbit for fun and someone else letting their dog chase your dog for fun? In both situations, one animal is enjoying itself and the other is suffering.
I don't go out in search of critters for my dogs to chase, but if they're on my property and are eating the plants, they're fair game to the dogs. It makes no difference if the dogs enjoy it or not, because my main goal is to push the little guys off of the property.

As for letting them chase something, say, at a park.. no, personally I don't let them do that. If they're off-lead to begin with and try to chase a squirrel, I call them back. Admittedly it is more out of concern for my dog than for the squirrel (who will run to the nearest tree in 1.4 seconds if he crosses paths with a dog OR a human).
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  #38  
Old 11-14-2007, 12:35 PM
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I try to take a middle approach I guess. I have high prey drive dogs and since I live in a city, in most situations letting them chase is not at all practical or safe. If really in the midst of a chase, a fence will not stop them, they'd just go over, under or through (yes, through--I've seen Conrad do it). So, I generally give the back yard a quick glance for critters before releasing the hounds. Especially cats. My personal nightmare is one of my dogs killing a neighbor's cat (which they would absolutely do if given half a chance). But we get other stuff in the yard too (rabbits and turkeys primarily) and it's less about me not wanting my dogs to kill the other stuff and more about what kind of havoc a chase would involve and the safety issues. With these dogs, chases generally wind up in kills if they have even a tiny chance to do so.

But if it happens and safety isn't an issue and no one's pet is in danger? Well, it happens. I'm a vegetarian myself but I own two large predators (plus two small ones if you count my cats, but they don't go outside) and they don't share my ethical concerns. Marlowe has killed 2 squirrels and a bird while being walked on a 4 foot leash (he just dove into the bushes as we walked by and came out with a critter in his mouth!) and Conrad has a pretty lengthy kill list from when we lived on a lot of property out in the country and he had free roam much of the time. Groundhogs just do not move fast enough, natural selection needs to get on that pronto!
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  #39  
Old 11-14-2007, 12:43 PM
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yea our hounds liek to bring us presents dont they LOL.
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  #40  
Old 11-14-2007, 12:59 PM
SizzleDog SizzleDog is offline
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"If it is a larger dog chasing my dog down, hell yeah I'll bitch, because a large dog (or any dog for that matter) should not be loose in the first place. My dog is a small dog, she is easy to catch. Is it so easy to catch a big dog at large? Plus my dog wouldn't have a CHANCE at a bigger dog. she'd be ripped to bits."
I've found quite the opposite - it's harder for me to catch my 20lb corgi than it is to catch either of my 75lb Dobermans. First, I have to bend over to catch her. Second, she can wind around my legs in a flash. Three, she's quicker than the dobes (not faster, but quicker). Catching the big dogs is easy - put out a hand and grab 'em, they're at hand level and aren't as agile. They also aren't as afraid when you grab for them. Little dogs though, a simple grabbing motion can look very threatening!

As for small dogs chasing my big dogs, I don't like it any more than you like big dogs chasing your small one. Small dogs slash at the legs of big dogs and can cause a lot of damage. Ilsa was attacked by a Westie when she was about 8 months old, the little bugger nearly tore Ilsa's throat out. It was horrible, and the westie's owner thought it was fine becuase her dog was a "little dog". Grrrargh.
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