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  #71  
Old 10-12-2007, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by smkie View Post
If they don't like the way this forum is run, then they should go make one of their own.
The "don't let the door hit your @ss on the way out" mentality isn't always the best approach though.
If people didn't care about the forum they wouldn't have this arguement, they would simply leave and nobody would ever know why or if anything could be done to improve.

Criticism isn't always easy to hear but it's sometimes a very useful tool and great improvements can come from it.
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  #72  
Old 10-12-2007, 10:13 AM
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IF they really cared about this forum, the would work together in a postive manner instead of grooving on the bashing.

When i went to art school our director of the dept was a tall, thin, stern man who seldom smiled. He was available for any questions at anytime. He kept the order of our dept which was small but still very complicated. He however didn't lean over our desks and tell us what to do.
I sat at a student meeting where i listened to half a dozen students criticize this man for being unfeeling, stern, fatherlike, and i thought wtf. WHat did they want after all? He had always answered anything i had to ask him, since when does someone have to have a smile pasted on their face. WHat they didnt' know about this "uncaring, unjovial man" that didn't respond the way they wanted him to, was how unbelievably educated he was. WHat i learned from him is a part of who i am today. Not only that he fostered-raised a dozen children and put all through college. Those students got a burr under their saddle because he didnt' lean over and make them do good work. He let them find their own ways. If he had leaned over our desks we would have been doing his work, not our own. Listening to this criticizm of CHazhound by certain members is like listening to those students back then. Your not looking at the whole picture here, only your perspective of it, which IMO is a nearsighted. And because of that everyone is affected, yet you have not been silenced. Sometimes i wish people when they are ranting and raving would look around and see who is being quiet and think why? could it be because they have nothing good to say? ANd are choosing to say nothing at all?
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  #73  
Old 10-12-2007, 10:26 AM
Melissa_W Melissa_W is offline
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I just hate to see the forum torn apart like this. I hope that everyone can somehow put their differences aside and move forward. I think everyone contributes to the forum in their own way and I would hate to see anyone go.
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  #74  
Old 10-12-2007, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chazhound View Post
Your idea of an dog abuser may be very different from what we find. I can find no evidence of dog abuse that has been reported to me. If you have some prove of dog abusers on Chazhound I would love to have it.
To me, this is the big problem with this discussion -- what constitutes "abuse" to one person may not to another. As someone who has to make decisions every day about whether to report child abuse or not, I can say that it is all very subjective. Even when I hear something in a therapy session and think, "That is ABUSE!" it all depends on the person who answers the phone at DCS whether or not there will be a formal report made. The word "abuse" is just too open for interpretation. Subjective.

It's not subjective for me, in my life. I would never hit a child OR an adult OR a dog. I can't say I was ever so surprised on chazhound as I was during the thread in which people who would have jumped ALL OVER someone for hitting a dog then turn around and talk about how they feel fine spanking children. But, that was my own response and not an issue of moderation. No one was condoning "abuse" but in my experience, abusers seldom feel they are abusing.

Unless you want to write a 15-page manifesto on exactly where the fine line is between training, correcting, abusing, and maltreating dogs, I think it's fine to let the forum more or less moderate itself. We should all take responsibility for reporting the things we are uncomfortable with. Then, though, we have to accept that the mods will do what they feel best about. If you continue to disagree with the decisions after that, then that's a personal issue.
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  #75  
Old 10-12-2007, 10:47 AM
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I agree there is a fine line. But the blatant things, like hitting with sticks, hanging, half drowning, seem to me to be far enough over the line, it should be obvious.
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  #76  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:07 AM
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If I may, I know people are upset by the subject of Frenchkissed. Her websites have been put up and is a self proclaimed puppy farmer. When other members are working so hard to rescue and face the sad looks of those they can't help, those hundreds that die, it is a slap in the face to have a person who does this for profit get on here and give everyone advice. I just don't really understand why that person or one who admittedly let an animal starve to death were ever allowed to stay. There are more examples here to. I was really not aware of the fact that I should have reported those directly to Chazhound. Live and learn. Since the mods were sometimes involved in those convos. I never thought it needed to go further. That that was it, if you will. These people get everyone upset and are just here to stir sh!t, Chaz would be a better place without them. 3 or 4 months ago I could hardly leave my computer and Chaz. Now it just plain sucks, It is not the same.

I know Chaz has said he doesn't think allowing them to stay is the same as condoning or supporting their actions , but from a members standpoint that IS how it seems.
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  #77  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I agree there is a fine line. But the blatant things, like hitting with sticks, hanging, half drowning, seem to me to be far enough over the line, it should be obvious.
It should be, but it isn't. You didn't report none of these things. If it is ok with you then don't blame Chazhound. Most everyone who has problems with the mentioned posts, did not report nothing. We deal with every reported post.

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  #78  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazhound View Post
It should be, but it isn't. You didn't report none of these things. If it is ok with you then don't blame Chazhound. Most everyone who has problems with the mentioned posts, did not report nothing. We deal with every reported post.

Chazhound
I can't speak for everyone else but when a mod is posting on the threads I assume no more reporting is necessary.
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  #79  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruit bat View Post
If I may, I know people are upset by the subject of Frenchkissed. Her websites have been put up and is a self proclaimed puppy farmer. When other members are working so hard to rescue and face the sad looks of those they can't help, those hundreds that die, it is a slap in the face to have a person who does this for profit get on here and give everyone advice. I just don't really understand why that person or one who admittedly let an animal starve to death were ever allowed to stay. There are more examples here to. I was really not aware of the fact that I should have reported those directly to Chazhound. Live and learn. Since the mods were sometimes involved in those convos. I never thought it needed to go further. That that was it, if you will. These people get everyone upset and are just here to stir sh!t, Chaz would be a better place without them. 3 or 4 months ago I could hardly leave my computer and Chaz. Now it just plain sucks, It is not the same.

I know Chaz has said he doesn't think allowing them to stay is the same as condoning or supporting their actions , but from a members standpoint that IS how it seems.
I do understand how you feel and come to that conclusion. We will never be able to root out all the bad apples, some will sneak around and just stay within the guildlines to stay. Remember, you have to have prove before I act. I have seen none. Do you actually know anyone who bought a puppy from her? A puppy farm sells huge amounts of puppies. A site with no traffic or desire will get no business. Anyone going to such a site from Chazhound will already have a negative view before landing on the site. I have to look at the whole picture here.

We allow mods to be members too and voice their own individual opinions and beliefs. If you think a mod is involved in a thread and not addressing abuse, then report it to another mod, me, or Renee. I know all our mods love and care dearly for dogs.

Remember, it is easy for me to just delete this thread. I do want an open forum. The members has always and will always report the bad apples and maintain order. If you don't, then don't blame me. We as dog lovers, will investigate the complaint based on merit, not emotion. On facts, not accusations. Rest assured that has always been the way here.

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  #80  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazhound View Post
It should be, but it isn't. You didn't report none of these things. If it is ok with you then don't blame Chazhound. Most everyone who has problems with the mentioned posts, did not report nothing. We deal with every reported post.

Chazhound
?? I didn't report it cause I wanted to discuss it. If I reported it, the thread could have been locked. I addressed how it wasn't ok with me, from within the thread, so others could come and see the arguments. And as there were a few mods in there too, I too thought all who needed to know, were in the know.
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