This is a Forum.

[Renee750il]

There's been a run of controversies over various and sundry issues lately, and terms like "troll" have been used pretty promiscuously. A few of you have wondered why we haven't banned people for touting methods and philosophies that a great many of us have great distaste for, that, don't agree with the "philosophy" here.

This is a forum.

A forum, ideally, is a place for free exchange of ideas - not for a handful of people to eschew their own philosophies to an audience of sycophants. That goes for both sides of the hot issues.

As moderators, we aren't here to "steer" things in any particular direction. Moderation is just that - we are here to moderate and keep things from escalating TOO violently.

"Steering" a forum and dictating that it have a particular philosophy is what makes a forum irrelevant and what kills a forum.

It needs to be remembered, also, that good intentions don't negate the ill effects of poor behavior. It's a real shame when the people who we condemn for their treatment of dogs - or any animal - can exhibit more self-discipline in the presentation of their arguments for their methods than those who are on the opposite side of that fence. And what is even more sad, is to observers, it tends to give more credibility to their harsher methods . . . . Damnshame, too.

[Dizzy]

I nearly wrote "good observation".

But reading your post, I agree.

It's a real shame when the people who we condemn for their treatment of dogs - or any animal - can exhibit more self-discipline in the presentation of their arguments for their methods than those who are on the opposite side of that fence.

People may not like the way I put my own ideas across, but I never name call, or resort to kiddie tactics. And sadly, most of the new members to this site have had to witness this.

Some people need to pull their socks up, straighten their shirts and remember, what goes around, comes around.

Either way, well put.

[Charliesmommy]

I personally see nothing wrong with a forum that dictates a particular philosophy, when that philosophy is the humane treatment of animals. I joined this forum because I thought it was for people who love dogs and want what is best for them. Lately I see a lot of people who abuse and neglect their dogs hanging out here and I have no use for reading what they have to say.

[Aussie Red]

Yes I too thought that it was a forum built on the love and betterment of dogs. While I do believe in freedom of speech I also see that as a forum of animal lovers it is out of place here. Kind of similar to allowing Satan worshipers free speech in a house of God if you will. As a person who works so many hours daily to free animals from the pits of abuse and death I can not agree with allowing these to be in a place made solely to bring in animal lovers and let us face it that was the reason Chaz was started. I can agree that one needs to try to help a person who does not know what to do but when given the advice spends deals of time arguing why they can't do it I see them as trolls. When I see them coming in waves and not being stopped I have to wonder if it is where I need to be. I can not or will not be nice and supportive of ones willing to hurt an animal or breed them for profit. It goes against every grain of my being. I think that there are great people here but that being nice to these is something I can not support. I think that if you want to sit on the fence and not take a stand and go with not stepping on toes ok then ,but it is my opinion and always has been that if you stand in favor of one thing then you stand all the way and and go full guns. I stand up against animal abuse and mass breeding and that means I will continue non support of these types of people even if it costs my popularity and friends because I am not sure they ever were if they support this stuff.

[Renee750il]

If you'll notice, there is absolutely nothing there that even implies supporting those methods or the people who espouse them. You can make a more effective stand by being persuasive and rational than you ever will by being hysterical and throwing haymakers.

If you only preach to the choir, you'll never convert anyone.

People HAVE been supporting them. People have tried talking to some of these people with wrong ideas of how to raise and train dogs and it doesn't work. People like Aus can nicely talk a person's ears off and still it never gets through these peoples thick skulls.

I tried and tried to be nice to a particular member while she was rude as he!! to everyone else. It took her how many weeks to finally be banned?

Being nice doesn't always work.

When I joined this forum, I joined it because people had the same set of guidelines for what is acceptable and what isn't. For some reason it seems that those guidelines have changed and now it is ok for someone to run a puppymill and give advice on how to do it or beat a dog to train it.

It actually makes me sick. If people here are not going to stand up and defend what is right then what is the point. Some of us will try and explain what a person is doing wrong and others will come along and basically say "shut up you don't know what your talking about", "you are being hypocritical", "you don't know this person" etc.

[ACooper]

If you only preach to the choir, you'll never convert anyone.

BUT, at the same time alot of these "type" of threads are looking for trouble purposely, Trolling if you will, I know it, you all know it, and yet you give them exactly what they want time and again............CRAZY.

How can a troll BE a troll without willing participants?? I know if MY intent were trolling, nothing would tick me off more than to be ignored!

So who is really to blame in these situations? the Troll? Chaz? The mods? or all the people who keep coming back and keep that thread right at the top while the troll laughs their behind off

[jess2416]

Well, if everyone knows what a trolling thread is, and people know how people are going to react to those types of threads then maybe it should be deleted/closed before trouble even starts, instead of letting it get 15 pages long...

But maybe thats too complicated

I agree. Why bother letting trolling threads even go on? Oh because we were told to give them a chance.

[ACooper]

But see, no one said NOT to go and give your advice or opinion. Because there very well could be a chance that it is a legitimate question or issue.

ONE post is usually more than enough........unless of course you have something NEW to add that wasn't said in your first post. But there are those that keep coming and coming saying the same thing that THEY themselves have already said, but getting more aggressive and rude EACH time they do so. As if saying it rudely will somehow make the "supposed" troll give up or understand YOUR point of view...........ya, good logic there