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  #41  
Old 09-11-2007, 09:40 AM
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14 inches is the ideal height for a cocker bitch. 14.5 and it's a DQ.. Cider is 15.75.. Can't prove bad breeding wouldn't have made her taller anyhow.. but it's an awfully lot taller. She was spayed at 6 months.
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  #42  
Old 09-11-2007, 03:49 PM
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I'll take the article written in 2007 over the one in 2004 any day, new studies are done all the time and outdated material can be harmful.

I had a neuter contract with Dante's breeder that he wouldn't be neutered until 2. I did have it done at 14 months because I was concerned about a retained testicle.
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  #43  
Old 09-11-2007, 04:11 PM
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The shelters are so empty. I think we just have to work harder to convince every Tom Dick and Harry who is not an above and beyond pet owner like many on this board to not neuter their pets. That ought to fix the empty shelter problem.
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  #44  
Old 09-11-2007, 05:00 PM
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I don't see what's so bad about keeping a dog intact if you're going to take care of it and not let it get with another dog.

Now, I'm all for neutering and spaying, but why do people act like intact males are going to be so much trouble. They're really not. Beau doesn't mark, he doesn't wander, he's by far the most non aggressive dog I've owned. He's three and still intact with no problems. He hasn't shown in about a year.

Of my four dogs, three are fixed as they're just pet dogs. I think all pet dogs should be fixed. Now, Nikki wasn't fixed until she was... 6 years old? Something like that. I would've done so earlier, but I was a child at the time. Still, she was never allowed out when she was in season. (A bitch in heat is a pain in the butt though). We also had an intact male and an intact female at the same time. Nik's first heat we had just gotten Trey and he was intact. No problems. Rose was spayed at 2 years and Trey was neutered at about 18 months. We've never fixed a dog under a year.

I also don't buy the medical benefits. I've researched both ways and there are benefits and risks to both getting a dog fixed and leaving one intact. Certain cancer risks go up with neutering and others go down. It's primarily for convenience. I don't want to have to deal with a female in heat, so we got Rose spayed. That doesn't make it wrong, but that's what it's for.

Another thing to point out is that in other countries where the amount of unwanted dogs is a lot lower than here that they rarely ever spay or neuter their pets. It has to do with the American attitude towards dogs as a commodity and not a responsibility. I'm not saying don't get your dogs fixed and the overpopulation problem will go away- obviously that's stupid. But I'm simply pointing out something.

People tend to assume if you DON'T fix your dogs you are automatically going to have puppies and be irresponsible. That's not true. You can have intact dogs and be completely responsible. I've actually been called abusive for not neutering Beau which is just plain stupid imo.

It boils down to a choice. Research and choose what is best for you and your situation, just make sure you know the pros and cons. There are pros and cons to both ways. Neither is a 'right way'. If you can't keep a dog intact for two years without impregnating a female, then by all means neuter him! If you can, well then look at the other aspects.

And about being anal about pets nowadays... Growing up our mutt was intact, fed Pedigree and survived without getting any other dogs pregnant etc. I wonder how he made it, lol.
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  #45  
Old 09-11-2007, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I don't see what's so bad about keeping a dog intact if you're going to take care of it and not let it get with another dog.

Now, I'm all for neutering and spaying, but why do people act like intact males are going to be so much trouble. They're really not. Beau doesn't mark, he doesn't wander, he's by far the most non aggressive dog I've owned. He's three and still intact with no problems. He hasn't shown in about a year.

Of my four dogs, three are fixed as they're just pet dogs. I think all pet dogs should be fixed. Now, Nikki wasn't fixed until she was... 6 years old? Something like that. I would've done so earlier, but I was a child at the time. Still, she was never allowed out when she was in season. (A bitch in heat is a pain in the butt though). We also had an intact male and an intact female at the same time. Nik's first heat we had just gotten Trey and he was intact. No problems. Rose was spayed at 2 years and Trey was neutered at about 18 months. We've never fixed a dog under a year.

I also don't buy the medical benefits. I've researched both ways and there are benefits and risks to both getting a dog fixed and leaving one intact. Certain cancer risks go up with neutering and others go down. It's primarily for convenience. I don't want to have to deal with a female in heat, so we got Rose spayed. That doesn't make it wrong, but that's what it's for.

Another thing to point out is that in other countries where the amount of unwanted dogs is a lot lower than here that they rarely ever spay or neuter their pets. It has to do with the American attitude towards dogs as a commodity and not a responsibility. I'm not saying don't get your dogs fixed and the overpopulation problem will go away- obviously that's stupid. But I'm simply pointing out something.

People tend to assume if you DON'T fix your dogs you are automatically going to have puppies and be irresponsible. That's not true. You can have intact dogs and be completely responsible. I've actually been called abusive for not neutering Beau which is just plain stupid imo.

It boils down to a choice. Research and choose what is best for you and your situation, just make sure you know the pros and cons. There are pros and cons to both ways. Neither is a 'right way'. If you can't keep a dog intact for two years without impregnating a female, then by all means neuter him! If you can, well then look at the other aspects.

And about being anal about pets nowadays... Growing up our mutt was intact, fed Pedigree and survived without getting any other dogs pregnant etc. I wonder how he made it, lol.
Awesome post Laurelin !! I totally agree with you and your reasoning! I also grew up with intact males my whole life who ate dog chow, stayed out in the yard loose with no fence, picked out of peoples trash once in awhile and lived a very long happy life !
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  #46  
Old 09-11-2007, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
I don't see what's so bad about keeping a dog intact if you're going to take care of it and not let it get with another dog.
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you and several others who read this board can do this. It's the other millions of people who would shout OOOPs that worry me.

I am not convinced based on the information here that we are looking at anything other than anectodal information and a few opposing studies. I am just not so sure it's such a great idea to turn the world loose with unneutered dogs based on that.
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  #47  
Old 09-11-2007, 05:22 PM
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Oh i know. It just flusters me when people act like you are an idiot for not neutering your dog. This does happen quite often.

I still think training is more to do with intact dog behavior than whether the dog is intact or not. Of our five male dogs I've had the only neutered one was Trey. The rest had no behavioral problems. (Actually Trey is the most problematic dog i've had, but that has nothing to do with his neutering) None marked or did anything that you hear about intact males doing. Granted Harry never made it to adulthood.

I also see a lot more benefits healthwise from spaying a bitch rather than neutering a male dog. Both adult female dogs i've had have been spayed, though i'd have preferred Nik was spayed earlier.

Most research is very pro spay/neuter because it's the easiest thing for the average person, but they are doing more research on the adverse effects too. It's all an interesting read.

The point is, I don't think people should be harping on you for neutering Elwood at 6 months. That seems pretty normal for me. If he were mine, I'd have probably waited until he was about two years old though.
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  #48  
Old 09-11-2007, 05:54 PM
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personally i think six months is fine for most dogs and most owners. i wouldn't worry about it.
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6 months is a great age to get a pet dog done. The average person (perhaps not people on this forum - I am talking about average Joes) should NOT wait until a dog is 18-24 months before getting it fixed. What is the point? if the dog is not going to be shown or worked or whatever, it should be fixed ASAP.
For giant breeds, it can cause problems (early spay/neuter.)

I will NEVER have another dane spayed or neutered before 18 months of age.

Aside from personal experience and the experienced words of wisdoms from many of my dane mentors, here are reasons why....

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenl...vet/neutr.html

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/con...ull/11/11/1434

http://www.petresource.com/Articles%..._neutering.htm


And then, one I've posted before that is EXCELLENT food for thought on the whole subject of the spaying and neutering prevents cancer arguement...

http://www.geocities.com/rottndobie/...terCancers.pdf

It's a lot of reading, but it's a subject I have researched thoroughly and I am comfortable with my decisions. In a breed where bone cancer is rampant, if I can cut down the statistics even on a small bit, I'm going to.

Not only that, but I gastropexy all of my danes. Doing so too early can cause the pexy to break down and compromise it's effectiveness.
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  #49  
Old 09-11-2007, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfacedanes View Post
For giant breeds, it can cause problems (early spay/neuter.)

I will NEVER have another dane spayed or neutered before 18 months of age.

Aside from personal experience and the experienced words of wisdoms from many of my dane mentors, here are reasons why....

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenl...vet/neutr.html

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/con...ull/11/11/1434

http://www.petresource.com/Articles%..._neutering.htm


And then, one I've posted before that is EXCELLENT food for thought on the whole subject of the spaying and neutering prevents cancer arguement...

http://www.geocities.com/rottndobie/...terCancers.pdf

It's a lot of reading, but it's a subject I have researched thoroughly and I am comfortable with my decisions. In a breed where bone cancer is rampant, if I can cut down the statistics even on a small bit, I'm going to.

Not only that, but I gastropexy all of my danes. Doing so too early can cause the pexy to break down and compromise it's effectiveness.
Shadow, what are you doing about Corvus? Is he already neutered or are you waiting till he is grown to his full potential?
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  #50  
Old 09-11-2007, 06:39 PM
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Shadow, what are you doing about Corvus? Is he already neutered or are you waiting till he is grown to his full potential?
Depending on his growth we will likely wait until 12 months and make a decision then. I have started to have doubts that he has any dane in him at all, though sometimes I swear he does. Sometimes I swear he doesn't. All we can do is wait and see.
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