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  #21  
Old 08-03-2007, 05:46 AM
Labra Labra is offline
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All breeds were basically bred for some kind of a job weren't they?
I know most dogs like herders,retrievers,and sled dogs are alot happier doing what they were bred for.
I disagree. I would take a guess and say that 95% of dogs are bred as PETS and not as working dogs. The working instinct has been bred out of many breeds that were orginally bred to work.

The small number of dogs that ARE specifically bred to work do better in working homes.

Most pet bred dogs are perfectly content lazing around the house with regular walks, play and training.
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  #22  
Old 08-03-2007, 09:36 AM
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I suppose that holds true to some breeding,but what my point is,an Australian Sheperd for example if NOT worked mentally and phyically with lots of room to run can be a real problem to their owner.If allowed to excersize their brain and body "they can be the best dogs in the world".
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  #23  
Old 08-03-2007, 09:50 AM
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Some dogs were bred by Kings & Queens just as lap dogs many centuries ago. To provide company while being admired on the laps of royalty.
Some dogs were worshipped as GODS and did NOT work.
Some dogs were bred to warm the feet of their masters .
So the defination of a job can be varied.
Yet most all Working /Guardian/Herding/Terrier/Hounds however had a job on one time or another. IN many cases these jobs became extinct thus new jobs had to be found, to keep the dogs minds vital, such a agility , lure coursing, rally, herding trials for dogs that do not work etc etc.

So even thou I breed working dogs to work in many forms of protection.
It is not up to the owners to preserve the breeds functions it is the breeders who must raise the bar and find different ways to keep the dogs form and function kin to the foundations of the breed.
With that said even if the breeder is working dogs with sheep be it herding or LGD, using them to go to ground, or hunting them.
Just how many homes are going to then do the same with the dogs?
Not many and some have to be sold as pets, thus to me all dogs WORK as long as they are bonding and living with a family, they LOVE.
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Last edited by planet molosser; 08-03-2007 at 10:19 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-03-2007, 10:11 AM
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I disagree that because dogs are a lot of the time bred for pets that they loose their instincts to stalk, chase, grab, bite, (sometimes kill and dissect) The "working" part of working dogs is the utilization of predatory motor patterns...some part or parts of the whole sequence. Biologically, you can't take the entire nature out of a dog. They're still predators and they still have drives and instincts that go with being a predator. I see the expression of those drives and instincts every day with any and every dog.Those drives and instincts should have an appropriate outlet for good mental health. Some dogs have more or less of the whole sequence of motor patterns than others. Motor patterns have to do with developmental onset and offset which varies between dogs.

Sometimes play and training is enough for an outlet. What is the definition of working anyhow? LOL. If it stimulates the dog sufficiently, mentally and physically, he's going to be happy. Play can include the utilization of many motor patterns. Learning new things works the mind. I think lots of dogs work. Just because they don't have a 9 to 5, doesn't mean they're not working. Just because someone works at McDonalds doesn't mean they're not working. LOL.
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  #25  
Old 08-03-2007, 10:12 AM
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Great post PM! Yes, you said it so much better than I could. And added some really good points.
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  #26  
Old 08-03-2007, 10:16 AM
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"Some dogs were bred to warm the feet of their masters ."

I want one of those!
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2007, 11:06 AM
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Carrie, I have seen and witnessed many times not always the complete loss of instinct to do the job a dog's breed was originally bred for, but a great reduction in ability and instinct at the very least. I find this happens a lot more in show dogs than even backyard bred dogs. A friend of mine a couple years ago adopted a retired show dog (Siberian Husky) who was still young but his breeder decided he wouldnt be able to improve her lines any and decided to rehome him. Anyway this guy helps one of my mentors out a lot (building stuff for her) and asked her if she would run his dog with her team. This dog had ZERO instinct to pull. It wasnt a matter of "oh its because he's already an adult" because both me and my mentor have taken countless number of Huskies (of various breeds and mixes and some not Huskies at all), put them in harness and within minutes they understand whats going on and are throwing their weight against the harness. This guy simply had no instinct to pull. He was a CHAMPION show dog and yet he couldnt meet the standard completely. Sure he fit it conformationally but he couldnt do what it is a Siberian Husky is supposed to excel at. Hmmmm

Its not just Siberian Huskies though, I have seen it in other breeds as well. Its a very sad thing. Someone goes out and buys a show-bred GSP hoping to make it a faithful partner in hunting they go out in the field and the dog runs past all the birds and just starts swimming in the lake. Pheasant are running around under his nose and he does nothing about it.... These dogs look the part but sure as heck dont ACT the part...It amazes me that more people dont notice this....

Border Collies who may be able to herd better than a Labrador but when put up against a working-bred BC PUPPY already look like fools. Dogo Argentinos who cur out at the mere sight of a boar or run straight at him in a way that will easily get him killed....
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2007, 11:13 AM
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Awesome!! Well said,some very good points...got us all thinking,that's what really matters.
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2007, 01:30 PM
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I seem to be seeing alot...

"working VS lazing on the couch"

My dog does not work - but she certainly doesn't "laze on the couch" all the time either!!

My point is that just because a person doesn't "work" their dog in it's traditional role, doesn't mean that the dog is any less active - mentally or physically.

Bodhi is MUCH happier being active than lazy, and so we walk, swim, play games.

She is muscled up and trim, and she is EXCELLENT at retrieving and using her nose. And swimming and bouncing over things at high speed.

She gets a thrill when she gets into the car because she knows that high energy pursuit will follow - I am sure the same thrill a working dog gets when it's "uniform" is put on.

I don't think a working dog is any better off or happier than a properly looked after pet - WHATEVER breed it is.
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  #30  
Old 08-03-2007, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet molosser View Post
Some dogs were bred by Kings & Queens just as lap dogs many centuries ago. To provide company while being admired on the laps of royalty.
Some dogs were worshipped as GODS and did NOT work.
Some dogs were bred to warm the feet of their masters .
So the defination of a job can be varied.
Yet most all Working /Guardian/Herding/Terrier/Hounds however had a job on one time or another. IN many cases these jobs became extinct thus new jobs had to be found, to keep the dogs minds vital, such a agility , lure coursing, rally, herding trials for dogs that do not work etc etc.

So even thou I breed working dogs to work in many forms of protection.
It is not up to the owners to preserve the breeds functions it is the breeders who must raise the bar and find different ways to keep the dogs form and function kin to the foundations of the breed.
With that said even if the breeder is working dogs with sheep be it herding or LGD, using them to go to ground, or hunting them.
Just how many homes are going to then do the same with the dogs?
Not many and some have to be sold as pets, thus to me all dogs WORK as long as they are bonding and living with a family, they LOVE.
I think this is a really good post and sums up my thoughts well. And I have to agree with Dizzy's post. None of my dogs have traditional 'working jobs' but they're all very active (with the exception of Nikki in her old age, she was as a pup). they all seem very happy and I doubt they could be happier even if they had 'real' jobs. As long as the dog gets its needed physical and mental stimulation (which does vary from breed to breeD) in whatever way, then they will be fine. Our lab enjoyed hunting, but I think he would have been just as happy playing a good game of fetch or hiking in the woods.

Most people don't need a working dog anymore. Many people choose to do dog sports or such to fulfill their dog's mental and physical needs instead. Not many people rely solely on their dogs as they once did. I think it's great to compete with your dogs through trials of whatever kind, but I don't think that's the only way to keep a traditionally working dog breed happy in the modern day. To get a very active breed and not give it the proper amount of physical activity would not work. But to say a retriever must be a hunting dog to be happy just isn't true, imo.
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