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  #11  
Old 06-01-2005, 04:16 PM
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lablovingirl lablovingirl is offline
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moe I agree
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2005, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Athe
oriondw
When a person can place blame on the jogger, that is scary. These joggers pay tax dollars, there is no need of them having to concern themselves or be threatened of any dog when they are jogging or enjoying the community.
I assure you, most dog owners pay tax dollars as well. Im sure you didnt mean that joggers should be careless and at times simply stupid while enjoying community? Common courtesy hasnt hurt anyone yet as far as I know.
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Originally Posted by Athe
There are many people who enjoy getting out and jogging, biking, walking who don't like or understand dogs. There is no reason these people should have to take a course on dog behavior before they decide to take up these sports.
It's the dog owners responsibility to either train their dog properly, or if your dog has a high predatory drive or guarding behavior then its the dog owners responsibility to find a secluded non jogged spot to walk their dog...not the joggers responsibility.
It is the owners responsibility to train the dog and look out for joggers! I agree. But, saying that dog owners should simply pack up and go where no one runs is ignorant and offensive. Dog owners have as much rights as any average jogger. If a jogger doesnt like or understand dogs, why dont they stop and alert the owner? Or simply run around the dog owner? Please dont tell me its hard to do it
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Originally Posted by Athe
A dog can go into predatory drift over the slightest movements. A jogger would be a prime object for a dog with a high prey drive to focus on. I have seen some dogs go into predatory eye stalk motor pattern over a frightened child. My Rottweiler uses her predatory drives towards my other dogs. I get to see first hand just how dangerous a dog with the enhanced drives of some breeds can be. My Newf's and Dobie can be walking along minding their own business and my Rottie will just happen to glance at them and go into eye stalk, if my other dogs move she will then chase them or if they stand stock still she will run at them and nip at their legs. I am very careful with my Rottweiler as I know that could be very dangerous around children playing outside. Inside the house it is a completely different story, she loves children...but, children can easily trigger predatory drift even with their shrill play cries and zig zag running patterns etc. You can't just say a dog is an over all good dog cause he will let the children pat him in a controlled environment. When you are dealing with a breed with the full series of motor patterns with some of the drives enhanced, then you have to be extra careful. The scary part is, there are too many people who don't understand or study motor patterns of the predatory drive before they buy a dog who has them.
This doesnt really relate to anything I wrote as I was basing my statements on the fact that most joggers are inconsiderate and dont care for rights of other people on the sidewalk. If a dog eye stalks a jogger or whoever that means the owner, if he's any good, has probably noticed the jogger as well and has time to take direct control of his dog. Dogs known to be agressive or have high prey drive should never be off-leash.


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  #13  
Old 06-02-2005, 06:58 AM
Athe Athe is offline
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Quote:
I assure you, most dog owners pay tax dollars as well. Im sure you didnt mean that joggers should be careless and at times simply stupid while enjoying community? Common courtesy hasnt hurt anyone yet as far as I know.
My point is -Joggers, children on bikes etc... it is their right to walk, play, jog on the side walks and public parks. It is a "Privilege" for a dog owner to walk his dog on a side walk and in public places. If you have a dog that lunges at people or that you fear may not react well to being surprised or if the dog is otherwise not stable then you have no right to take that dog into public areas. If you expect people to have to watch out for your dog then IMO that is wrong. If you have a dog that may react badly in any situation then don't walk it in these public places. Now if there is a dog park specifically made for dogs then joggers should not be racing around these areas, they are designated for dogs.

Quote:
It is the owners responsibility to train the dog and look out for joggers! I agree. But, saying that dog owners should simply pack up and go where no one runs is ignorant and offensive. Dog owners have as much rights as any average jogger. If a jogger doesnt like or understand dogs, why dont they stop and alert the owner? Or simply run around the dog owner? Please dont tell me its hard to do it
I will say it again. There are many people out there that don't like dogs. Why should they have to go out of their way to avoid your dog. It is a joggers RIGHT to be jogging on the side walk. It is a dog owners "PRIVILEGE" to walk his dog in public places. If you own a dog that is not sound or may react badly then this is your problem, not the joggers problem. You therefore have to find a new place to walk were you will not bother joggers...or put a muzzle on the dog or a head halter for better control of head and mouth. I would report a person whose dog was lunging in a threatening manner at passing joggers, bikers etc. That to me is a dog which could potentially be dangerous. I like to catch a dangerous situation before it turns into reality of a bite or worse. If the owner knows the dog has some problems walking in public places and you have no where else to walk then ensure you use a muzzle on the dog when in public. It is a dog owners responsibility to make the community safe, not a non dog persons responsibiltiy to learn to avoid hazards or learn more about dogs in general.

Last edited by Athe; 06-02-2005 at 07:13 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2005, 07:10 AM
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lllll

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  #15  
Old 06-02-2005, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oriondw
lllll
what does that mean?
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  #16  
Old 06-02-2005, 08:47 AM
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Everyone is saying "should have been on a leash"

But my dog buster is agressive to other dogs. I walk him off the leash in semi controlled atreas ie a small paddock where dogs dont usually come. And accidents can still happen. Why put a dog through the misery of being restrained for its entire life when WE bred the prey drive into it?
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Old 06-02-2005, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athe
My point is -Joggers, children on bikes etc... it is their right to walk, play, jog on the side walks and public parks. It is a "Privilege" for a dog owner to walk his dog on a side walk and in public places. If you have a dog that lunges at people or that you fear may not react well to being surprised or if the dog is otherwise not stable then you have no right to take that dog into public areas. If you expect people to have to watch out for your dog then IMO that is wrong. If you have a dog that may react badly in any situation then don't walk it in these public places. Now if there is a dog park specifically made for dogs then joggers should not be racing around these areas, they are designated for dogs.


I will say it again. There are many people out there that don't like dogs. Why should they have to go out of their way to avoid your dog. It is a joggers RIGHT to be jogging on the side walk. It is a dog owners "PRIVILEGE" to walk his dog in public places. If you own a dog that is not sound or may react badly then this is your problem, not the joggers problem. You therefore have to find a new place to walk were you will not bother joggers...or put a muzzle on the dog or a head halter for better control of head and mouth. I would report a person whose dog was lunging in a threatening manner at passing joggers, bikers etc. That to me is a dog which could potentially be dangerous. I like to catch a dangerous situation before it turns into reality of a bite or worse. If the owner knows the dog has some problems walking in public places and you have no where else to walk then ensure you use a muzzle on the dog when in public. It is a dog owners responsibility to make the community safe, not a non dog persons responsibiltiy to learn to avoid hazards or learn more about dogs in general.

no animal should have to feel "priveliged" to walk on a side walk. it is as much its right as it is ours
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  #18  
Old 06-02-2005, 09:40 AM
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I don't agree that it is a dog owners "privilage" to use the sidewalk! It's statements like that that make me wish I lived in the middle of nowhere, just me, my husband and my dog. I'm sorry I pay taxes too. This owner was wrong but I agree that a majority of the joggers I have seen have little to no regard to what is going on around them. Sure, they shouldn't have to take a dog safety course but they should be aware of their surroundings, just as you are asking the dog owner to be. We've bred dogs to be what they are. It isn't their fault, it wasn't part of a natural process that we have huskies, and aussies, and jack russel terriers. It was by selective breeding to get spacific traits. In my opinon a beautiful, strong, majestic dog like a husky has no buisness having to live around joggers and the like. He should be out in the wild with his owner pulling a sled and enjoying the great outdoors. But that is just my opinion. My point is we tend to blame the dog, and the owner when it is a sociatal issue. WHY are people afraid of dogs? Why do they instead of being aware of them as creatures to be respected do they taunt them or make hateful remarks towards owners? Sunny weighs in at 25lbs, and that is all the bigger he is going to get but he still deserves respect as a living creature. He lunges at people while we are walking...he wants to be petted and loved by every walking thing. I don't see that as a danger. A nusince maybe but not a danger, and we are working to correct the problem. To make this into a "no dogs allowed" issue really gets me heated. I just found out that the majority of the national parks now have "no dogs allowed" in the friggin backcountry. why? because it might scare some other hikers. I'm sorry, are we going to eradicate birds now because some people are afraid of them? What about coyotes. Or wolves...oh yeah, mostly already DONE that. It is human ignorance that says "I deserve to be here more then animals" , and it is that ignorance that deprives society of kindness and a true sense of love and respect for the world around them!
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2005, 10:22 AM
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What it boils down to is we as pet owners have to control our pets....Period. If we don't or if one or two people don't, then local governments will prohibit dogs from certain areas or they will start the Anti-Breed law stuff.

I agree it is not fair but governments usually side against the pet owner. I have seen several parks in my area closed to dogs because people won't pick up the poop!

I have a little area where I let my dogs off leash and walk them around but I can see in all directions and I put the leashes on real quick if I see anyone even act like they might walk in my direction. I also have made sure my dogs are train to come when called....you would be surprise how many people out there have no control over there unleashed dog.

Sunnypup --Ideally I agree with everything you said at the end of you post about dog restrictions in America but they will only get worse if we are not careful.
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  #20  
Old 06-02-2005, 12:10 PM
Athe Athe is offline
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Quote:
But my dog buster is agressive to other dogs. I walk him off the leash in semi controlled atreas ie a small paddock where dogs dont usually come. And accidents can still happen. Why put a dog through the misery of being restrained for its entire life when WE bred the prey drive into it?
mrose_s, Yes, we did breed these prey drives into our dogs...they were bred to perform certain jobs. These dogs were never bred for living in a pet home. If you choose a breed with these high prey drives and full series of predatorial motor patterns then take precautions. It only takes one child to run frightened and screaming from a dog with high prey drive to be killed. Why do we run that risk? An accident should never have the opportunity to happen. This is why people should do research of the potential their chosen breed may have. If you choose a breed that potentially has a high prey drive then take extra steps to socialize the dog. The dog in this news story did a horrible thing, if it had been a child it could have been a mauling death. The owners should be charged and this dog should never have the opportunity to be loose again.
Quote:
no animal should have to feel "priveliged" to walk on a side walk. it is as much its right as it is ours
No mrose_s, the urban areas are inhabited by people. There are many people who don't care for dogs. It is a privilege for you to walk your dog in public areas, a well behaved obedience trained dog that is not lunging at people is completely acceptable. You have no right to endanger people or children if you own a dog that is out of control..then that is your responsibility to ensure the safety of other people...its not their responsibility to watch out for your dog or take precautions of their own.
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