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  #21  
Old 07-20-2007, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post

Now if a breeder doesn't dock the whole litter, my question would be why? Are none of the dogs suitable to be conformation, or working dogs? If so then why breed the parents?
Every breeder knows that sometimes even entire litters do not turn out prospects. It's a fact of life. The two greatest dogs in the world are not guaranteed to produce 100% everytime, to think so is just silly.
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  #22  
Old 07-20-2007, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by HugABull View Post
Every breeder knows that sometimes even entire litters do not turn out prospects. It's a fact of life. The two greatest dogs in the world are not guaranteed to produce 100% everytime, to think so is just silly.
Your preaching to the choir
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  #23  
Old 07-20-2007, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugABull View Post
Every breeder knows that sometimes even entire litters do not turn out prospects. It's a fact of life. The two greatest dogs in the world are not guaranteed to produce 100% everytime, to think so is just silly.
But how can you tell at 3 days?! That is when it needs to be done. You can't look at angles, or teeth, or coat, or ears or eyes or anything at that age and definitely not athletic ability or working ability. So if you are convinced the pups are not worthy of show/work then you would have known before they were concieved.
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  #24  
Old 07-20-2007, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
But how can you tell at 3 days?! That is when it needs to be done. You can't look at angles, or teeth, or coat, or ears or eyes or anything at that age and definitely not athletic ability or working ability. So if you are convinced the pups are not worthy of show/work then you would have known before they were concieved.
Not docking their tails doesn't mean anything.
If it did, it wouldn't be banned in several places in the world.

I don't know any breed that works better simply because it has no tail, either. And I am not a show dog person, I like working dogs, and prefer them to be able to work regardless of how long their tail is. I have yet to have any dog have bad working skills because it's tail was present.
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  #25  
Old 07-20-2007, 05:24 PM
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A natural tail in a JRT can get stuck beside the body if the spin in the tunnel. The tails are meant has handles so you can grab them and pull them out (assuming you can reach them..) And you can't show an undocked dog. So as I was saying...
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  #26  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:19 PM
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So does that mean that JRT's in Germany are worthless?

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  #27  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:23 PM
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why would they be worthless? In that country (which I don't know if they have a JRTC anyway) of course dogs could show with tails..they can't in north america unless they are imported. And personally I want my dogs as safe as possible when working. I would hate to have my dog hurt and I couldn't easily grab tail and pull them out. So what you are saying is that we shouldn't dock, so I can't sell my pups to working people, or conformation people (not that the last is very likely)? And that a little danger is ok, cause they need tails?
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  #28  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:34 PM
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I am asking, but you're not really answering. Dogs cannot have docked tails in Germany. Does that means that the JRT's there are worthless?

Are people there ruining the dogs by letting them work with tails? Is it really necessary to say they are putting their dogs in danger?

I never, EVER said you shouldn't/couldn't dock. Nowhere in any of my posts did I even mention it. I am making a point that a docked tail does not make a dog, especially a working dog, no matter how much you think it does. There are dogs out there of every docked breed with tails that are doing work without any hassle that so many claim there is. It's even been proven that undocked tails are not any more damaged in docked breeds than dogs than tails that are not present.
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  #29  
Old 07-20-2007, 09:44 PM
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I would love to see where that has been proven, especially in hunting breeds. I have yet to see a dog with a shortly docked tail breaking its tail or getting cuts, bruising, severe gashes, etc. It's funny how vets never have to dock the tails of docked dogs due to injury.

Edit: And I'm quite sure Dekka would never see a JRT (or ANY dog for that matter) as worthless--she wasn't the one suggesting it, you are. She loves her breed. She is responsible and educated and most likely (correct me if I am wrong, D) would not send a dog with a long tail into an Earthdog trial due to the likely hazards.
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  #30  
Old 07-20-2007, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noludoru View Post
I would love to see where that has been proven, especially in hunting breeds. I have yet to see a dog with a shortly docked tail breaking its tail or getting cuts, bruising, severe gashes, etc. It's funny how vets never have to dock the tails of docked dogs due to injury.
http://www.anti-dockingalliance.co.uk/page_27.htm
Actually quite a bit on that site all together that is rather interesting.
But, I'm sure you will probably dismiss it because just so happens to be a site against docking.


I also have proof in my own experiences, but I doubt that would be taken into account either.
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