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  #11  
Old 07-19-2007, 12:01 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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The one I have seen has sort of a scraggly setter- tail. Its as if you are seeing the lineage between setters and spaniels, but its clear that no one has been breeding for a spaniel tail for a long time, while the setter tails have been refined (or at least not accidentally genetically abused.)
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2007, 12:43 PM
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the only cocker i've known who had a full tail had a really nice one. i think they're quite attractive with tails, really.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2007, 05:50 PM
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I found some pics here

American :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erie/329079509/


(click on the pic in the top of the page)
http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...e4922&ei=UTF-8

English:

http://www.vets.org.nz/images/TailDocking/Cocker.jpg

http://animalgiftsgalore.com/pics/En..._Spaniel_2.jpg
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2007, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MafiaPrincess View Post
I know no breeder that will do that. At three days it's near impossible to decide what puppy is going to what person to leave one undocked in any breed.
Note, that is why I said *may*.
Some people have a puppy reserved regardless of it's age.


I also do not get where 'no decent breeder leaves tails intact' comes from. I know plenty of breeders who do not dock tails who are extremely responsible.
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2007, 10:15 PM
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At three days, no breeder knows what each puppy is going to be like. Making it irresponsible to randomly choose one to leave. Being the cocker breed standard in north america makes it irresponsible to choose not to dock. Good breeds will tell you a flat out no if it isn't a choice in the breed standard including fabulous people on this site with docked breeds. It's not as simple as saying gee lets not dock that one. A good breeder wouldn't want their name on that puppy.
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  #16  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:00 PM
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And if a breeder chooses not to dock at all does that mean they are irresponsible?
That is clearly saying that it is irresponsible to even think about owning an undocked dog of a traditionally docked breed.
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  #17  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MafiaPrincess View Post
At three days, no breeder knows what each puppy is going to be like. Making it irresponsible to randomly choose one to leave. Being the cocker breed standard in north america makes it irresponsible to choose not to dock. Good breeds will tell you a flat out no if it isn't a choice in the breed standard including fabulous people on this site with docked breeds. It's not as simple as saying gee lets not dock that one. A good breeder wouldn't want their name on that puppy.
I think it's a **** shame that any working standard has been tossed out the window and in it's place came a standard of tail docks.

I would much rather take a spaniel that could actually hunt than one with a pretty nub.

While I won't ever push to make cropping and docking illegal (because we've got enough laws), I will push for people to quit doing some meaningless and money wasting surgeries.
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2007, 12:27 AM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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Agreed. The biggest problem is that they are potentially "throwing out" a show dog. If the breeder is willing to take that risk, why should anyone care that they have a tailed dog running around?

Yes, it is out of standard, but it has NOTHING to do with the actual breeding. If one could prove its correctness another way, I wouldn't care if it was bred, since the tail has genetically nothing to do with the dog.

Show people might not want to loose the potential show dog/breeder, but those who still hunt the dogs (there must be a few) would likely be much more willing, they are in some other breeds.
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2007, 12:30 AM
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Here's a couple pics of Toby (RIP buddy) with a full tail. Not the best pics, but they're some of the few digital photos I have of him. He liked his tail and wagged it profusely! It did look like a rat tail when he was swimming though.

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  #20  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:44 AM
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Ok here's the thing with not docking on request... If say you don't dock a pup and what if the its not the right match for the owner. Not every litter is going to have a pup for every person. I have one person waiting on a pup. The last litter didn't have what she was looking for, so now she is waiting 2 years to see if my next litter has what she is looking for.

What if the pup you don't dock turns out to be a great working dog, or conformation prospect? What if you end up having to keep the pup, or greatly reduce its price because the people looking are looking for a traditional dog? (and that is why people often go with pure breds, yes the like the temperment, but also the look)

At 3 days they look more like guinea pigs than dogs, and you have no idea about temperement, so IMO it is very irresponsible to decide at 3 days what pup should go to what owner.

Now if a breeder doesn't dock the whole litter, my question would be why? Are none of the dogs suitable to be conformation, or working dogs? If so then why breed the parents?
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