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Old 06-26-2007, 11:17 AM
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Default American Molosser?

In the classifieds I have started seeing ads for American Molossers. Is this some actual breed, or just a mix of big dogs? Aren't Molossers a type of dog? Like the Ovtcharka is considered a Molosser. Confused.
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:33 AM
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American Molosser also known as the American Bull Molosser

http://www.aspenrare.com/hometwo.html

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/a/americanbullmolosser.htm

http://www.aspenrare.com/AM-breedings.html

the following is taken from www.molosserdogs.com

Quote:
GENERAL APPEARANCE:
The American Molosser is a medium to large sized breed, smooth haired, sturdy dog of short, square build and strong bone. The musculation is clean and very powerfully developed and stands plastically through the skin. The movements are lively and full of strenght and power. The gait is firm, ground covering. Developed to serve as both guard and catch dog, he combines strenght and agility with elegance and determination. He is alert and confident.

HEIGHT: Male 20-26 in Female 19-24in
MASS: Male 90-120 lbs Female 75-100 lbs

COLOR:
Any color acceptable with all else equal preferance given to the following, in said order: Black, Dark Brindle, Blue, Blue & Red Brindle, Light Brindle, Red, any of the above colors with white, multi-colored acceptable..
Flaws: Solid White or White more than 75***37; considered undesirable.
Reasoning: 1) White dogs carry recessive deaf genes.
2) The orginial bullenbiesser was dark in color.

COAT:
Short, lying smooth and tight to the body

BODY
: Large in proportion to body and square. Thick, powerful, jaws. Muzzle short and proportionate. Ears cropped or uncropped, set high and wide, with either button or rose bud preferred.

TEMPERAMENT:
Friendly, but bold and fearless. Adversary to threats to master or property. Overly aggresive dogs are considered a flaw, a confident dog is only aggressive when warranted. We do not produce dangerous dogs. Nor do we sell them to dangerous people.

BITE:
Slighty undershot, reverse scissors, extremely powerful

WORKING ABILITY:
All Americam Molosser MUST be consistently proven, titles are required on pedigree information and are only PPDA certified, to date.

PURE BRED MOLOSSER vs BANDOG:
No AM are accepted for breeding purposes unless the adult is reviewed by the breeder and tested or titled by a certified PP trainer/club. By-laws and B.O.D. membership available upon request. All pure bred Molossers that have genetic superiority and have proven themselves with temperament test, personal protection, PPDA title I,II,or III (good luck!) with catch-work. Breeding status may be given to a titled Molosser, without catch-work, but never to a Molosser that is not titled and catches. Reasoning, temperament unproven.

Bandog status will be given to any dog that mets all above requirements but hasn't been proven consistently for three generations with breeding and proven working ability.


The name of this breed is very misleading, seing how it is not a true mountain Molosser type dog, but rather a recent re-creation of the old Brabanter Bullenbeisser. The American Molosser was developed from American Bulldogs, Bandogs and German Rottweilers, although Boxers, Pit Bulls, Neos, Bullmastiffs, Cane Corsos and other breeds were used in the early days, too. Although standardized and of loosely established type, the Bull Molosser is bred primarily for function and not just form, following the same rules used for the original working bulldogge population of Europe. Intended to be the ultimate working protection dog, this sturdy, muscular and very powerful breed is a result of a selective breeding programme using only temperament-tested dogs who proved themselves in protection work trials.





The American Molosser is an intruder's worst nightmare, but this fearless breed is also a very loyal and loving family dog, as well as a capable hog hunting dog. Dog-aggressiveness is undesirable in this breed, but this is a dominant bully and early socialization is still needed. Broad-chested, muscular and strongly boned, the American Molosser is an athletic working dog, quite fast and remarkably agile. The head is broad and substantial, with a strong muzzle and powerful jaws. The ears and tail can be cropped or left unaltered. The coat is short, flat and smooth, coming in shades of black, blue, red and brown, preferably brindled and with some white markings, but white dogs and examples whose coat is predominantly white aren't allowed. Average height is around 24 inches, although taller dogs are accepted, as long as they're athletic and functional.
I am friends with the original owner (and I believe breeder???) of the famous Sher Kahn. When he was up for sale I wanted terribly to buy him but knew at the time I couldn't offer him everything he needed to truly be a happy balanced dog.
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:38 AM
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And here is the definition of a "Molosser Dog" from Wikpedia:

Quote:
Molosser is a name for a group comprising several breeds of large, solidly-built dogs, probably all descended from the same root stock. The name derives from Molossia, a country once located in Western Greece.

Molossers are sometimes called "mastiffs". The proper noun "Mastiff", however, is used to refer to the English Mastiff, a breed that originated in England over two thousand years ago. Other terms include "Mast***237;n" (Spanish), "dogge" (Germanic), and "dogue" or "dogo" (Romance languages).


An Entlebucher Sennenhund, showing the typical molosser build.Breeds such as the Bullmastiff, Dogue de Bordeaux, Fila Brasileiro, Mastin Del Pirineo, Spanish Mastiff, Neapolitan Mastiff, Tibetan Mastiff, and many others fall into the larger category of "Molossers", but are not "Mastiffs". Each is a separate and distinct breed.[1] The Boxer breed is also included, as it is a creation from other Molossers including the Original English Bulldog.

Molossers typically have heavy bones, pendant ears, a relatively short and well-muscled neck, and a short muzzle. Although some Molossers are used for search and rescue, such as the Newfoundland, most are used as guard dogs, due to their deep voices and natural guarding instincts, or herding dogs, not for actual herding but for protection against large predators as well as poachers. Some breeds like the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog have also been used as cart dogs.

The origin of Molossers is disputed, but Assyrian bas-relief carvings found in Nineveh date back as far as approximately 640 BC. Many believe that the Tibetan Mastiff is the ancestor of modern Molossers, although there is little evidence to support this theory. It is a fact, though, that large watchdogs have existed in Asia and the Middle East for several thousand years.

Some of today's Molosser breeds come from the British Isles and points farther north, which accounts for their thick coats and solid build.

The Bulldog breeds split from the Molossers in England and spread to the New World with colonization as well as Western Europe and, though smaller, are considered by some to still be Molosser breeds.
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:09 PM
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American Molosser are Bandogs YES mixed breeds.

Ovcharkas translates from Russian to English ( loosely) to Shepherds dogs or sheep dogs or dogs to graze with sheep.
Thus when a show is in Russia they will called the OES the a Ovcharka.
So without the Central asian or Caucasian in front of it you do not have a breed.
And when you do write Caucasian Ovcharka you are translating HALF the Russian name which is not correct _ but easy I suppose.

Central Asians as well as Mastiff etc etc are classified as Molosser Group 2 FCI from countries of origin.
See this link http://www.fci.be/nomenclatures_deta...en&file=group2

Here is a verifable defination of Molosser direct from History books.
From the FIRST and most accurate Molosser site on the net.
WRitten from a noted ethical breeder with whose hobby is RESEARCH.
http://www.moloss.com For the above click articles.

We can clearly see by the above that the word Molosser is a misnormer and are originally not describing the breeds now classified as Molosser dogs. Nevertheless is this the word that in modern times describes the breeds in question and I will continue to use this word in lack of a better word that embraces all these breeds.

Here is a link for a American Molosser dog of the month
http://www.molosserofthemonth.com/motm/year/2005/05/

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Old 06-26-2007, 08:01 PM
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*sigh* What exactly is the point of this "re-creation"? Don't we already have enough "ultimate working protection dogs" as it is? Designer mutts for men, is how I see a lot of these dogs.

Not that the dog itself isn't a gorgeous looking animal, but come on.

Cass.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:59 AM
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Thanks for all the info guys.
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Old 06-27-2007, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassiepeia View Post
*sigh* What exactly is the point of this "re-creation"? Don't we already have enough "ultimate working protection dogs" as it is? Designer mutts for men, is how I see a lot of these dogs.

Not that the dog itself isn't a gorgeous looking animal, but come on.

Cass.
Not really, deseigner breeds have no purpose other than to be profitable to the breeder and lap dogs to the buyer. This breed has a purpose: A capable protection and guard dog that has little to no dog-agression. Look at all the qualifications (stated above) that the dog must meet in order to be of breeding quality as an American Molosser and not simply a Bandog. Of course there are some people out there who take this name and slap it on their litter simply to try and improve sales but then they wouldnt be true American Molossers. potential buyers of this new breed need to be very careful when looking for a breeder. Dogs must be titled and health tested.

ETA: BTW, I double checked with my friend and he actually does still own Sher Kahn, I thought he had placed him.
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Last edited by oc_spirit; 06-27-2007 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 06-27-2007, 12:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Cassiepeia;744898]*sigh* What exactly is the point of this "re-creation"? Don't we already have enough "ultimate working protection dogs" as it is? Designer mutts for men, is how I see a lot of these dogs.

Not that the dog itself isn't a gorgeous looking animal, but come on.

Cass.[/QUOTE]



You are correct it is NOT a breed untill they are bred American Molosser to American Molosser for 3 generations.

Bandogs have been around for centuries .
See this thread on chaz
http://www.chazhound.com/forums/show...hlight=bandogs

This applies to all breeds or designer or bandogs ,Work vs Show.
All dogs need to be screened for inherited genetic issues and in this case performance tested in all venues.

Proven is as Proven does.

IF not it looks like a backyard breeder, guess what it is a backyard breeder.

BTU I agree this dog is the best looking AM ive ever seen on the net.
hell dam nice dog no matter the breed or cross there of.
Sad he is giving up his dreams.
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Not really, deseigner breeds have no purpose other than to be profitable to the breeder and lap dogs to the buyer.
I disagree in part....a designer dog/mutt is a dog created for profit and selfishness, in a world already too overcrowded, that serves no unique purpose (ie: the niche has been filled several times over already). I include a large number of re-creations and, indeed, bandogs in this. I can except and exclude dogs that are already now established breeds and have strict ethic of genetic testing.
I do understand that on occasion a purpose bred cross is needed and helpful, however we have enough breeds to cover every job imaginable and I see no reason why these "re-creations" are anything unique that the world needed.
I also believe that a large number of people who breed these dogs simply believe their own hype and can't see past their own ego. Especially if they have a bunch of people around them who don't know any better (or just don't care) telling them how fantastic it is.

There are already too many dogs in the world to be so flippant about breeding, IMO.

Cass.
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Old 06-28-2007, 12:45 PM
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Their reasoning is that yes there are breeds that can serve protection purposes, but they find some areas lacking with those breeds so they create this mix to suit those needs.

Just like with the Alaskan Husky. There are many freighting breeds already available (Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute, Canadian Eskimo Dog, Greenland Dog, Samoyed, so on so forth) but somebody decided that speed was lacking as well as trainability so they cross in German Shorthaired Pointer or Greyhound or Saluki, or whatever breed when crossed with Siberian Husky they believe will fill the niche and Tadaa you get the Alaskan Husky!

Perhaps it takes getting to know a breeder and their dogs to get a full appreciation of what they are doing/creating?

JMO
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